PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

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    callipygias
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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by callipygias on Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:12 pm

    Oh, no question, Mark. Except Estus they have all the advantages and nothing at all at risk. I'll side with the host every last time.


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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:27 pm

    Not just estus, they are also almost always out numbered. Not to mention if you summon a random person they almost always have gear on par with what invaders have.

    Like i said people can play the game however they want, i have no issues with what you decide to do. I will say that some of my favorite moments from my original playthrough where when i was invaded, i put up a fight but was killed. It really got my heart racing, it was a great experience that i have not felt in any other game. Later in that playthrough when i had some decent weapons and stats, i got invaded and finally killed an invader. It felt great, i also did it by myself though. I would highly recommend people play the game solo for the first time, but i completely understand wanting to co op with your friend.

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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by callipygias on Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 pm

    The invader may be outnumbered in PVP areas like the forest, but during playthroughs the host is the one outnumbered, because invaders use the engine against him.


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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:44 pm

    The reason he's getting the game is to play together. It's a social thing.


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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by Ghadis_God on Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:49 pm

    In regard to the discussion happening between fruitpunch and callyp....
    The host has every possible advantage over the invader. Remember invading Lautrec the first time in Anor Londo? Lautrec didn't flask, but that was a hard fight nonetheless. And honestly, you lose very little as a host as well. I can understand if the invader is griefing you with overleveled gear, but invaders are a part of the game, and a part of being human. There is no distinction between PvP and PvE in DkS, they are one and the same, just as there is no distinction between 1player and coop. You remember how easy the game gets when you summon a buddy and steamroll everything? Imagine if that had no risks? By being human you take on the reward of getting a friend in your game while taking on the risk of letting an enemy in. It's a balanced system in a game that's designed to be punishing and difficult.


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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by callipygias on Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:45 pm

    Ghadis_God wrote:In regard to the discussion happening between fruitpunch and callyp....
    The host has every possible advantage over the invader.
    I think you're talking about ganking, which I suppose would be the exception. Rather than derailing this thread further maybe start a new one if you want.


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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:02 pm

    Disagree that the host loses very little. Humanity is a precious commodity in coop; you lose it every time you die.


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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by StarScarJenova on Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:57 pm

    Yeah a person playing through their first time loses so much more than an invader! The host is playing through with an attempt at gaining souls and humanity. Not everyone knows easy farming methods, some people rely on those souls to level. The invader always has the mob on his side. I've faced countless invasions where I've got area appropriate weaponry and am still able to hold my own against the invader, for that reason alone the invader runs off into the mob and starts to aoe or range me to death while I'm dealing with 4 or 5 other mobs. I'm all for experiencing the invasions, when they're done right, but when the invader is maxed with a very clear advantage over damage output it breaks the game mechanic. I'm positive From never meant for a lvl 1 to have a +5chaos claymore slap that dude who started the game 10 mins ago across the face.


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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:59 pm

    Right. First time through, expect a lot of deaths at the hands of mobs; if we're doing coop, that's a lot of humanity to farm.


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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:17 pm

    I agree most people would find even more motivation to hunt you down if you messaged them to leave. But I also agree the griefing can ruin it for low level people. I'm on Xbox, and I've been trying a few starting level runs recently, with almost no invasion action. Best way to avoid it is start as a level 1 pyromancer, and don't level. Spend all your souls on titanite and upgrades to the glove. It will serve you better in the long run.

    Funny story about griefer invasions. I was in Anor Londo once, right up where the first bridge crosses to the approach to the Dragonbow snipers. Guy invades with his high level gear. I cast Chameleon and turned into an urn right up by the other urns. He ran by me THREE times, looking. On the fourth pass he stopped right along the edge, and I came out of the spell to backstab him, and the best part was, the animation ended up throwing him off the ledge.
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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:19 pm

    StarScarJenova wrote:Yeah a person playing through their first time loses so much more than an invader! The host is playing through with an attempt at gaining souls and humanity. Not everyone knows easy farming methods, some people rely on those souls to level. The invader always has the mob on his side. I've faced countless invasions where I've got area appropriate weaponry and am still able to hold my own against the invader, for that reason alone the invader runs off into the mob and starts to aoe or range me to death while I'm dealing with 4 or 5 other mobs. I'm all for experiencing the invasions, when they're done right, but when the invader is maxed with a very clear advantage over damage output it breaks the game mechanic. I'm positive From never meant for a lvl 1 to have a +5chaos claymore slap that dude who started the game 10 mins ago across the face.

    Absolutely... I've never understood why the invader gets immunity from the mobs. If he's getting ganked, sure, I can see it. But this game needs a mechanic where it knows whether or not the host is alone, and if he/she is, then the invader shouldn't get that advantage.
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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by WandererReece on Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:03 pm

    Most of the time I don't mind invaders, but when I start a new character without BB glitch and he invades me with a lightning weapon that has the ability to take me out in one hit without a critical attack I get frustrated, especially if I don't have helpers summoned.

    If they invade with level appropriet stuff and play fair then then I don't care if I fight them. Also, if I have helpers summoned then I think the invader has the right to fight near enemies.


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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:09 pm

    Yeah the typical rule of thumb is, Invaders are just players playing the game as intended.

    Griefers are people taking advantage of the system to ruin the time of another person.

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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:17 pm

    Well I wish there was never a BB glitch. Even when they get rid of it, it won't change anything for anyone that can figure out how to get around it, which I think will be everyone once someone posts up how.

    Oh well. If wishes were fishes we'd walk on the sea. Or something like that.

    Honestly I think the person that came up with that saying didn't know much about displacement, but hey, what do I know.


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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by WandererReece on Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:37 pm

    IV_Mark_VI wrote:Oh well. If wishes were fishes we'd walk on the sea. Or something like that.

    Sheldon Cooper wrote:If ifs and buts where candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas.


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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by WandererReece on Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:47 pm

    IV_Mark_VI wrote:Well I wish there was never a BB glitch.

    I think it started by the hosts BB glitching to get an unfair advantage versus invaders, and all the other enemies, and then the invaders BB glitched to remove that advantage. Then BB invaders invaded non BB host, which made those host BB glitch, thus causing a vicious cycle. Of course all the newbies get left behind.

    I still like going to the undead burg with a new character because you can clearly see who has played the game before and who are playing for the first time.


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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:49 pm

    I hope they remove the ability to load games from a USB stick, but that's outside the game itself so I don't see how they could implement it.


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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by reim0027 on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:25 pm

    Tolvo wrote:Yeah the typical rule of thumb is, Invaders are just players playing the game as intended.

    Griefers are people taking advantage of the system to ruin the time of another person.
    Well said.


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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by BLA1NE on Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:42 pm

    I won't get into the host vs vader argument, because no one ever convinced someone to change their mind in that argument, it's silly to try. I'll stick to the topic, instead:

    Best way to deal with invaders is to catch them off guard and kill them quickly. If you want to message them asking to leave, have the host do it while you're both hiding, and you guard their back. I'm sure some will leave (I would). By having the host send the message, the invader won't know you're there too. If the invader stays, stay hidden and wait for the invader to come to you. Then pop out and stab them in the back really quickly with a Lightning +5 Bandit's Knife and the Hornet's Ring. That'll take care of most invaders! If they invade repeatedly, have your friend block them on PSN, and they shouldn't be able to invade again. If you want to be proactive, you can block every invader as soon as you've killed them once... but that just seems anti-social!


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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by philtitan on Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:19 am

    OP(Mark), Weren't you one of the ones telling me not to ruin the game for people?

    I took your(and others) words to cerebellum. They made sense. I know you wanna do the social thing with your friend, but this is part of the social thing. There are dark parts to every society. Cheaters, thieves, liars, murderers, hypocrites and bastards. At least we can deal with it digitally(literally, I'm all thumbs when it comes to real sports... ) You can always both BB glitch to farm humanity, it's better than one of your earlier suggestions.

    So sally forth and tally ho!

    There are adventures to be had after all...









    (And if your friend has good taste, which I'm sure he does, you will be surprised when you meet them one night and they have beat the BoC without you... :affraid:


    Last edited by philtitan on Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:21 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : characitutre development/softening the blow)


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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by Kirk-Barb on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:20 pm

    One of your best resources against invaders during co-op is the fog gate. Be sure your friend understands that if he can get through it, the invader is history.
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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:26 pm

    ^ very true. I just think you're in for a lot of frustration if you try to eliminate the challenge of invaders. You will most likely just end up getting more frustrated then if you had a plan to avoid them legitimately.

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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:38 pm

    Just to be clear, here are my rules, and hence why this topic is called asking them to leave:

    1) Brand new player to the Souls series. Never touched it.
    2) I will be cooping with them.
    3) I will not spoil any surprise, so I will not get any spell or gear that he did not see / find.


    Fog gate only works if he knows where it is, and is skilled enough to make a dash for it. Also, I think it hurts the experience because we're not taking our time through a level, can't enjoy and explore it. People say the solution is to play offline, but the whole point is a coop experience.

    I may ask for gear to defend against invasions, but I don't want a first timer's experience to be dashing for the fog gate if I can help it. I would rather just explore giving htem time to look at things and items.

    He's not going to look anything up, and I'm not going to tell him. I'm not going to show him how to beat bosses or enemies, just there to experience with him and talk.

    So please keep this in mind before putting up a response. Whether my approach is valid or not doesn't matter; that's the way we're doing it.


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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by philtitan on Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:38 pm

    Yeah, but you would show him stuff he doesn't know about if you get anti griefer stuff.

    To keep on original topic.

    At the end of the day it's all your decision, but I don't think that asking an invader to leave is gonna be that successful. Maybe you could leave them a gift or something to entice them to split.


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    Re: PS3 methods of telling invaders to please exit

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:33 pm

    philtitan wrote:Maybe you could leave them a gift or something to entice them to split.

    I like slippers big grin

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