Wild *** Theories

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    n0rain
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    Re: Wild *** Theories

    Post by n0rain on Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:56 pm

    I think the first born is the player. Some interesting things to note though is the identical statues of the princess guard both in the church and in anor londo. The Darkmoon tomb and the princess' quarters both have them. The statue in the church is different though.
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    Re: Wild *** Theories

    Post by X-government-agent on Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:14 am

    it says the gow still watches over his soldiers closely so it's not gona be the player, that just doesn't make any sense atall. Was it not acknowledge in some interview it was Andre but they scrapped the whole thing and cut his part, he was supposed the lead you to the fire link altar according to one of the art books
    I believe, pretty sure it was posted on this site at some point.


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    Re: Wild *** Theories

    Post by Drascoll on Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:29 am

    I like this idea but need to point one thing out.

    n0rain wrote:the most logical explanation is that Gwyndolyn and Velka made a pact after the Godess went Hollow.

    When anyone goes Hollow they lose all there capacity for cognitive rational thought. So how would the Godess make a pact after she went Hollow?

    Just before she went hollow would make more sense in this scenario. Sorry for being a stickler for semantics. Sun


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    Re: Wild *** Theories

    Post by ThatPerson on Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:38 am

    I /really/ dont think the first born is the player. You could be female or male, and the first born is a dude. I guess if you were a guy, it would make sense. But I just don't think the Player is the firstborn.


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    Re: Wild *** Theories

    Post by Shkar on Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:39 am

    ThatPerson wrote:I /really/ dont think the first born is the player. You could be female or male, and the first born is a dude. I guess if you were a guy, it would make sense. But I just don't think the Player is the firstborn.

    "He" is the default way people typically refer to a person they don't know the gender of.


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    Re: Wild *** Theories

    Post by ThatPerson on Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:42 am

    Shkar wrote:
    ThatPerson wrote:I /really/ dont think the first born is the player. You could be female or male, and the first born is a dude. I guess if you were a guy, it would make sense. But I just don't think the Player is the firstborn.

    "He" is the default way people typically refer to a person they don't know the gender of.


    But he's the God of war. If he/she was a female, wouldnt it make sense for her to be a Godess of War?
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    Re: Wild *** Theories

    Post by Peaceful Wollyhop on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:17 am

    I don't think the firstborn is in the game, I mean there's no reason why he has to be.


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    Re: Wild *** Theories

    Post by ThatPerson on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:21 am

    Anyways, we should probably go back to the original topic. Velka! I like how her talisman scales with Int instead of Faith, meaning she probably values cunning over piety.


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    Re: Wild *** Theories

    Post by menzinho on Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:54 pm

    actually "It" is what you call something you don't know the sex, not wanting to pose as a jerk of course...

    and yeah, Velka is like the opposite of the god stereotypes, and would be pretty cool if we could actually talk to her, like we can talk to Gwyndolin, and she had her covenant of Carim badasses, not some feminine poser who wants to play punisher but is actually enforcing the sin of his father...


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    Re: Wild *** Theories

    Post by Shkar on Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:21 pm

    menzinho wrote:actually "It" is what you call something you don't know the sex, not wanting to pose as a jerk of course...

    and yeah, Velka is like the opposite of the god stereotypes, and would be pretty cool if we could actually talk to her, like we can talk to Gwyndolin, and she had her covenant of Carim badasses, not some feminine poser who wants to play punisher but is actually enforcing the sin of his father...

    That's if you are taking political correctness into account. Most people still refer back to "him" for gender.


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    Re: Wild *** Theories

    Post by PhlyingDutchman on Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:38 pm

    menzinho wrote:
    and as much as i'd like to link the Occult weaponry to Velka i simply can't, although it is indeed in the same place that her gear is, she was a god too, meaning that thing would be but i found no item descrip that would support that link, however i am a supporter of that theory and i'd really like to find solid proof that the Occult stuff was of Velka's making (maybe that is what made her "Rougue"? i don't know really i'm just a humble DS player XD)

    Aside from weapons created by ascension, there are only three weapons that deal occult damage. They are:
    Velka's Rapier
    Priscilla's Dagger
    Dark Hand

    Doesn't her rapier doing occult damage provide enough link? I think it's interesting that two of these are found in the painted world, along with the occult ember.

    It seems to me that Occult weaponry is associated with being anti-Gwyn-and-friends. Priscilla is certainly an outcast, and the Darkwraiths are out to destroy the lies perpetuated by Gwyn's children. Curiously, while these weapons are most effective against Gwyn's family and army they scale with faith. This seems odd at first, although if faith is just a sense of conviction, you could be as devoutly against the old gods as for them, which would certainly warrant the "occult" branding. For some reason, Velka's talisman scales with intelligence rather than faith, but this does provide a nice dichotomy with the Tin Darkmoon Catalyst, the weapon born of Gwyndolin's soul. I find this interesting because the Darkmoons are the ones punishing the sinners (who get indicted and absolved via Oswald!) Could this mean that they work together: Velka deals in sin and Gwyndolin in punishment? I think that there may just be a new sheriff in town, and that Gwyndolin is imposing the will of the old gods in Velka's absence, following her rebellion/betrayal/banishment.
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    Re: Wild *** Theories

    Post by menzinho on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:49 pm

    OMG how did i miss the Occult damage on her rapier! makes sense now ALL MAKES SENSE NOW, blessings upon you Phlying, now all is starting to glue together!

    I don't think Velka enforced the law of the gods, but the natural laws (<-- my opinion) and i think Gwyndolin is twisting Velkas work in lying to everyone and fooling the champions of his father to protect nothing but the false image of boobs, also, i'd say, Gwyndolin does not deal with Occult, he's a god himself, he must shun such things, enough to maintain them in the PWA, if he was seeking to do her job, he might have wanted to snatch all those juicy items from the painting, but this is my view, i find yours really interesting, but i still see Gwynny ad the main bad guy (even worse than his father :O)


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    Re: Wild *** Theories

    Post by PhlyingDutchman on Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:37 am

    menzinho wrote:OMG how did i miss the Occult damage on her rapier! makes sense now ALL MAKES SENSE NOW, blessings upon you Phlying, now all is starting to glue together!

    I don't think Velka enforced the law of the gods, but the natural laws (<-- my opinion) and i think Gwyndolin is twisting Velkas work in lying to everyone and fooling the champions of his father to protect nothing but the false image of boobs, also, i'd say, Gwyndolin does not deal with Occult, he's a god himself, he must shun such things, enough to maintain them in the PWA, if he was seeking to do her job, he might have wanted to snatch all those juicy items from the painting, but this is my view, i find yours really interesting, but i still see Gwynny ad the main bad guy (even worse than his father :O)

    I agree completely, and I like the "natual laws" term- perhaps even the "Occult" branding was given to Velka's magic by Gwyndolin simply because it stood against his new world order. I was only musing as to whether or not Velka and Gwyndolin had at some point been on the same side, perhaps while daddy Gwyn was still around. I feel like we're narrowing in an a better picture of the rise and fall of the house of Gwyn.
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    Re: Wild *** Theories

    Post by samster628 on Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:55 pm

    Velka's power and it's source certainly seems interesting and warrants more investigation. I am conflicted in what i think of both her and the painted world she clearly has a connection with (it is the only place where her items can be found apart from the miracle bought from her pardoner).
    The painted world seems to be a prison or a forteress/sanctary for exiles.
    I think forteress because priscilla seems to be happy there and the petrified smith indicates wepon's were being created there. prehaps the prisons denizens are preparing to make war on the gods.
    Just some ideas i really don't know what to think. Cryptic. :suspect:


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    Re: Wild *** Theories

    Post by menzinho on Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:24 pm

    To me the Painting seem like a miserable prison, since, none may leave unless they have the doll, at least it seems like that, why else would the have not left that place? Also looks like there was a lot of violence going on there, seen by the impaled bodies and the human pyres, maybe that was a prison of the "church", like the HQ of some kind of inquisition that hunted the "heretics", hence the presence of the Occult, Velka's followers, and several pyromancers with bloated disfigured poison filled heads, since pyromancy seems like a heretical art, since their practitioners hide in a huge swamp or down in Blighttown (love that rhyme), and those inquisitors left or faced a rebelion when the gods fled Anor Londo


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    Re: Wild *** Theories

    Post by samster628 on Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:57 am

    that's my other theory for the place. given the prison cells that can be found. The place where priscilla is and can be seen in the background around the map seem like cell blocks to me. Also note how to enter where priscilla is you pull aleaver on the OUTSIDE of her cell. But i can't rule out that it is a forteress of the exiled. Priscilla likes the place and the dead bodies on spikes are outside the forteress which could be a warning to intruders. also most of the enemies are not in cells and the crows (which i think at least at one point were minionsof velka) dont attack the other prisoners.
    Prehaps it was a prison of the gods until velka thought screw the gods and released the inmates who turned it into a forteress.


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    Re: Wild *** Theories

    Post by menzinho on Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:59 pm

    Maybe it's a prison of Velka... and the crows are guards, but since she became an enemy of the gods, the prisoners were set free, since they had no longer reason to be held... now it's a renegade fortress right under Gwynnyes nose


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    Re: Wild *** Theories

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:34 pm

    Until I’m convinced otherwise, I’ll continue to believe that Velka is connected to Gwydolin by being his mother. I know there isn’t really much information supporting this; however, it just makes the most sense to me (notice I said to me if you believe something else I’m not saying you’re wrong). Why else would Gywn have a child that has an affinity to the moon, and why do we hear nothing about his wife or mother of his children?

    Some see her as a goddess and others call her a rouge witch (sounds like slander to me). So what did she do to deserve such slander? If she’s the goddess of sin punishment… then it’s not too hard to believe she eventually saw Gwyn “sin”… and I think it’s a misconception that she would pardon anyone, that’s Oswald’s thing. As in, the way she would absolve your sin would be to punish you, while Oswald lets you pay him souls aka abusing the system to supply himself with souls. So she was removed (called rouge/rejected) from Anor Londo either by death or banishment (to the painted world) or she escaped (shape shifted into the crow?).

    If she escaped and changed into the crow then it explains why the crow picks you up and drops you off in Lordran. If this is true I also believe she dropped the Peculiar doll into your cell (hole in the roof, the crow could drop it right in) so that you could find her “tools of punishment”. This would also explain why there are black knights in the Undead Asylum when you return, they’ve been hunting Velka for a while? Furthermore, if this is true I believe it is Velka speaking during the intro and when the crow is picking you up. She would be propagating the legend of the chosen undead so that you would deliver her “punishment” to all those that have sinned. Meaning she doesn’t care one way or another if it’s the age of fire that continues or the age of dark. Also, she would pick up any undead if they could make it to that cliff, the more people she brings the more punishment she can spread, and she doesn’t have to worry if one fails she can just keep supplying undead.

    Either way, I think Gywdolin resents his father for the treatment he has received and uses the darkmoons to pay tribute to his mother (maybe he thinks she’s dead or she really is dead). The fact that the Darkmoon Tin scales off of Faith and Velka’s Tailsman Scales off of INT I think farther proves she’s his mother. What other items in the game use other stats to boost different spell sets? He casts spells that seem as if they normal sorceries; however, he is his father’s son and his high Faith powers instead of INT; in addition, he’s able to change what skill set he uses to cast Miracles and Sorceries just like his mother.. In all honesty though it’s all just speculation and hard to wrap your head around sometimes. Feel free to poke holes into this or let me know what you think, thanks for your time!
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    Re: Wild *** Theories

    Post by samster628 on Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:16 pm

    Velka could be Gdolens mother but i am not convinced. We never hear who gwyn fathered Gwen and Gdolen with but we also never her who is the father of the witch of I's daughters ether. I can't see how velka could be Gwyns wife though. She doesnt seem to be part of Gwyns panthagen. i think V's talisman is to show that she is a powerful witch (hence the intellegence boosting) but can cast miricles (like the ones she created). In contrast Gdolens catilyst shows that although he casts magic attacks at you he is no sorcerer but a god using his faith to boost sorceries.
    Great theory of how the doll ended up in the cell though - dropped by the crow (which i still think is just a minion of velka)


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    Re: Wild *** Theories

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:36 pm

    samster628 wrote:Velka could be Gdolens mother but i am not convinced. We never hear who gwyn fathered Gwen and Gdolen with but we also never her who is the father of the witch of I's daughters ether. I can't see how velka could be Gwyns wife though. She doesnt seem to be part of Gwyns panthagen. i think V's talisman is to show that she is a powerful witch (hence the intellegence boosting) but can cast miricles (like the ones she created). In contrast Gdolens catilyst shows that although he casts magic attacks at you he is no sorcerer but a god using his faith to boost sorceries.
    Great theory of how the doll ended up in the cell though - dropped by the crow (which i still think is just a minion of velka)

    Good morning Sam, and thanks for the response. I’m more leaning towards the crow being a minion of Velka as well, however; that does not change what I think about Velka’s intentions or why the crow is picking up undead. It makes sense because other than people being “mutated” into half crows or bubble headed undead etc, we don’t really have an example of someone shape shifting into an animal in game (that I know of). We do on the other hand have an example of a being who befriends some “animals” and they continue to do work in his name (Artorias/Sif/Alvina relationship). I can also see why you think they way you do about Velka having no relationship to Gwyns group but I’m so blinded by my theory right now I still believe what I wrote before. Seeing as how Velka cov and I’m sure some other items never made it to the end game product we may never know. Unless Miyazaki decides to just tell us one day, or troll us some more (more likely)..

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    Re: Wild *** Theories

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