Couple questions and theories.

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    Peaceful Wollyhop
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    Couple questions and theories.

    Post by Peaceful Wollyhop on Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:52 am

    Hello to anyone who's reading this thread! I am a new poster on the forums, well this is my first post but I have been reading the forums for a long time, especially the lore. I apolagise if these things have been brought up before.

    There's a couples things that I've always noticed and wondered the reasoning behind them. The first thing concerns feeding items to Frampt in exchange for souls. The majority of the armour sets you feed him will give you 100souls per piece. Some special helmets will give you more such as royal helm, fang boar helm, and symbol of avarice. But there are 2 armour sets that give you 1000 souls per piece, the gold hemmed set, which im guessing is worth a lot because of it being a very special set in it being light and heavily fire resistant. but one other set gives you 1000 per piece, the dingy set. I've always wondred why is it worth 5000 souls, it has no special propeties I am aware of, but something makes me think that it is important in the great unsolved mystery of Dark Souls, I know there have been a lot of therories an speculation around her and and the pendant mystery. I also wondered why the chanellers's and Smough's set was worth only 1 soul per piece, and Smough's soul being worth 1 for that matter. I know the crystal items are also 1 soul but I think that's to do with the unrepairable nature of them.

    And here's a couple of answerable question, I feel such a noob though asking them : P

    What exactly are bonfires? and What does linking the fire do? - both the ending and Gwn linking the fire, does it just prolong the age of fire or is there more?

    On the subject of fire I really like the concept of fire in Dark Souls and how it relates to real life. In Dark Souls, fire to humans is a reminder of evil, the age of fire and those 'Gods' who hated them. But it also provides hope, comfort and replenishment in the form of bonfires. In life fire burns us and can damage us physically and mentaly, but also provides warmth and comfort : )

    That is all, thankyou! ^_^
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    Re: Couple questions and theories.

    Post by X-government-agent on Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:19 pm

    If u link the fire u are just taking gwyns place and prolonging the age of fire/gods


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    Re: Couple questions and theories.

    Post by menzinho on Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:05 pm

    Fear not fellow chosen undead, the answer is here XD

    Ok, Bonfires are channels to the power of the gods(fire), and they are intertwined in a web that can be traversed via Lordvessel, the most important ones are tended to by Firekeepers, that are beings whose souls are not "souls", but magnets for humanity, a feat that causes severe damage to one's body (such as blindness and deformity)

    When you link the fire, you are giving your body as fuel to the first flame, just like Gwyn did, therefore halting the course of nature even further and extending the age of fire, thus lending the power to the only deity left alive in Lordran (if you kill him then i have no idea, but anyway that is how it goes)

    And you said something, that the gods "hated" the humans, that is not entirely true, i mean, they feared the humans true in that, since they one day would be cast down like the dragons were by them, but they needed the humans, first to have servants, but later for their humanity, you see after the linking of the flame by Gwyn, since nature wanted desperately to follow it's course, the fire kept dimming, even after the sacrifice, so the gods had to find some kind of fuel, and what it was? the humanity (notice how to kindle flames and get more estus, one must sacrifice a humanity to the bonfire)

    So the gods took and took humanity like crazy, to keep the fire lit, but then the abyss showed up, and with it Kaathe and his Darkwraiths, who also wanted the humanity, but know that a human does not have unlimited humanity, and what happens when a human loses all his humanity? Hollows... Undead... not allowed to die by their gods bonfires since they needed humanity, the undead were born, they kept respawning until they had no more humanity (when you die where do you think your humanity goes? sucked in by the local firekeeper maybe) and even after, so the undead outbreaks started throughout the land

    I hope that clears out some of your questions and welcome to the egghead club XD important to note that some of that is my speculation, so feel free to counter it and present thy arguments my good man XD


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    Re: Couple questions and theories.

    Post by Shkar on Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:23 pm

    menzinho wrote:Fear not fellow chosen undead, the answer is here XD

    Ok, Bonfires are channels to the power of the gods(fire), and they are intertwined in a web that can be traversed via Lordvessel, the most important ones are tended to by Firekeepers, that are beings whose souls are not "souls", but magnets for humanity, a feat that causes severe damage to one's body (such as blindness and deformity)

    When you link the fire, you are giving your body as fuel to the first flame, just like Gwyn did, therefore halting the course of nature even further and extending the age of fire, thus lending the power to the only deity left alive in Lordran (if you kill him then i have no idea, but anyway that is how it goes)

    And you said something, that the gods "hated" the humans, that is not entirely true, i mean, they feared the humans true in that, since they one day would be cast down like the dragons were by them, but they needed the humans, first to have servants, but later for their humanity, you see after the linking of the flame by Gwyn, since nature wanted desperately to follow it's course, the fire kept dimming, even after the sacrifice, so the gods had to find some kind of fuel, and what it was? the humanity (notice how to kindle flames and get more estus, one must sacrifice a humanity to the bonfire)

    So the gods took and took humanity like crazy, to keep the fire lit, but then the abyss showed up, and with it Kaathe and his Darkwraiths, who also wanted the humanity, but know that a human does not have unlimited humanity, and what happens when a human loses all his humanity? Hollows... Undead... not allowed to die by their gods bonfires since they needed humanity, the undead were born, they kept respawning until they had no more humanity (when you die where do you think your humanity goes? sucked in by the local firekeeper maybe) and even after, so the undead outbreaks started throughout the land

    I hope that clears out some of your questions and welcome to the egghead club XD important to note that some of that is my speculation, so feel free to counter it and present thy arguments my good man XD

    I hate to come across as a jerk, but it seemed like almost all of that was speculation (as you said), so it should be taken with a grain of salt.


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    Re: Couple questions and theories.

    Post by Peaceful Wollyhop on Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:38 am

    Ok thanks that gives me a clearer idea on bonfires, but I won't look into it to deeply as Shkar suggests : P

    But another questions comes up from what you said about linking the fire. Can anyone link the flame, I mean what are the requirements? In the Kiln could Gwyn not have got one of the black knights to link if if he could not? If that's not possible though and the fire need humannity to be fueled (which Gwyn doesn't have hollowed) could not he or the black knights have killed someone venturing the Kiln who would be sure to have hummnaity? But that would depend I suspose on wether you were the first or not to enter the Kiln after Gwyn linked the flame.


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    Re: Couple questions and theories.

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:02 am

    ^Gwyn's Lord Soul, the most powerful of them all. So powerful he gave shards of it to his 4 Knights, Seath and the 4 Kings. Also used it to kindle the First Flame. It's not humanity however, that's why it's barely lit when you try to light it again. It consumes all your humanity and explodes. Soul of Gwyn description:

    Soul of Gwyn, Lord of Sunlight
    and Cinder, who linked the First Flame.

    Lord Gwyn bequeathed most of his power to the
    Gods, and burned as cinder for the First
    Flame, but even so, Lord Gwyn's soul
    is a powerful thing indeed.



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    Re: Couple questions and theories.

    Post by menzinho on Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:43 pm

    god damn it i SAID IT ON THE END OF THE POST IT WAS ALL SPECULATION AND HE SHOULD CHANGE IT AS HE SEES FIT... can't people leave me alone... (i'm looking at you jerk...) damn it, not to take it? i'm sorry lord of truth, take your own speculation and shove it since you are so freaking bad... jackass... i've had enough of this... maybe people should at least TRY not to offend...

    but i don't think just ANYBODY can link the flame, i mean only so that you could, you had to gather all lord souls and most of the pieces of Gwyn's own soul, meaning only a hell of soul can do it (humanity turned out to be an alternative since it is a piece of a lord soul, only a different one)


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    Re: Couple questions and theories.

    Post by RNsunbro on Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:43 pm

    menzinho wrote:god damn it i SAID IT ON THE END OF THE POST IT WAS ALL SPECULATION AND HE SHOULD CHANGE IT AS HE SEES FIT... can't people leave me alone... (i'm looking at you jerk...) damn it, not to take it? i'm sorry lord of truth, take your own speculation and shove it since you are so freaking bad... jackass... i've had enough of this... maybe people should at least TRY not to offend...

    but i don't think just ANYBODY can link the flame, i mean only so that you could, you had to gather all lord souls and most of the pieces of Gwyn's own soul, meaning only a hell of soul can do it (humanity turned out to be an alternative since it is a piece of a lord soul, only a different one)

    No need for name calling.
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    Re: Couple questions and theories.

    Post by menzinho on Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:47 pm

    when i get offended that is what i do, i guess that is what anyone who gets their ideas thrown down as if they were nothing would do (if that is not what he meant, it sure as hell looked like he did...) i mean the guy don't seem to at least read all the things and just pops in saying "Uh... don't take it into consideration since it's all speculation..."


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    Re: Couple questions and theories.

    Post by samster628 on Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:32 pm

    Advice: don't try to make sense of the bonfires it's a mood point as to weather the flame should go out or stay lit (i say lit). If you really want to take a gander there are other threads with ideas and evidence (some of it from yours truly). To the matter of souls from frampt. i think the souls you get are just amounts chosen on a whim by From S. Basedon weight and defences. smoughs offers good defence but weighs S loads and gives you moobs. The dingy set is very good because itsone of the lightest sets in the game and offers good overall defence when upgraded (better than gold hemmed then). Tis my armor of choice for PvP.


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    Re: Couple questions and theories.

    Post by Shkar on Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:02 pm

    menzinho wrote:when i get offended that is what i do, i guess that is what anyone who gets their ideas thrown down as if they were nothing would do (if that is not what he meant, it sure as hell looked like he did...) i mean the guy don't seem to at least read all the things and just pops in saying "Uh... don't take it into consideration since it's all speculation..."

    I had only posted that because I couldn't see where you had gotten your evidence and I was trying to avoid having a large post pointing out evidence that goes against it. I really didn't mean to come across as a jerk.


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    Re: Couple questions and theories.

    Post by samster628 on Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:11 pm

    If it's any consolation Menzinho i think you're a good poster. On the subjest of personal opinion i don't see any solid proof that the age of dark will be better than the age of fire. The pigmy, bearer of the dark soul is hardly a nice person and being invaded when you have finally rounded up a posse to fight the boss shows that the darkwraiths arent exactly nice (those seeking honorable combat should go to the darkroot garden.) I always keep the flame lit for saftys sake but enough of that its another unsolvable mystery. Remember all things are plausable untill the evidence against outweighs the evidence for.


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    Re: Couple questions and theories.

    Post by menzinho on Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:15 pm

    I take it as this, every now and then, just like our world, DS world has a time of prosperity and peace, then decadence and conflict, then a new age arises, with new promises, the Age of Dark may or may not be good, we don't know, but i know it will be good for the humans, the same way the Age of Fire had it's prosperous moments

    what Gwyn did was only to prolong the decadence of the age of fire and turning the world into the s**tstorm it is now, maybe with a soul pretty neatly overpowered such as the Chosen Undeads (with all lord souls and a bit more) the age of fire will be bolstered back to it's times of glory, and endure, but i think all has to pass, it's just nature, but i really like your point, makes a lot of sense

    also something i did not understood, did the pigmy ever showed up in the game? if he did, please enlighten me so i can evolve my theories ^^

    also thanks a lot for the praise, it's just sometimes some kinds of things grind my gears badly, and i lose it, sorry if i offended anyone who was just passing by, but there is a limit, for everything...


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    Re: Couple questions and theories.

    Post by samster628 on Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:06 am

    Hmm i think gwyn did the right thing. the age of fire was good and he kept it going but after his soul died away in the flame thats when the darksighn arrived. continuing the flame will keep the world in its age of fire but the flame must constantly be relit and eventually the fuel for the flame will run out. Or you can save your power and extinguish the flame premeturly which will also diminish the power of the gods. this may allow man to nter an age of prosperaty.
    But what of mankind can't take being their own masters. look at humans in the real world - constantly looking for a higher power or force greater than themselves. without leaders in the age of mankind will most likley be damned. Ether Kaathe likes mankind and thinks they will prosper (even if they might not) or he seeks to become the new leader of mankind after the fall of the gods. There are other ideas in my head but these are the most likley scinarios for Kaathe's words. Most likly of those 2 i think is Kaathe liking mankind but his darkwraiths who all "failed him" and went insane shows he has already been overconfident of mankinds power.


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    Re: Couple questions and theories.

    Post by menzinho on Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:04 pm

    It's just a big freaking blur in the Lore, the future and what'll happen after you make your choice, i say that if nature dictated that the humans were ready to rule themselves and started to extinguish the flame, then i'd say it's a win win

    i say Gwyn wronged the humans and nature, but favored the gods, for them was a good thing, for a while, until the flames started dimming again and all went to hell again


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