Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Share
    avatar
    Buggy Virus
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1279
    Reputation : 37
    Join date : 2012-04-11
    Location : Firelink

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by Buggy Virus on Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:14 pm

    CaptanSpudsy wrote:In my opinion, the weapons that absolutely need buffs are the thrusting swords. They don't do enough damage to warrant them w/o a buff. It usually takes 5-10 pokes with a Richard's +15 w/ CMW to kill someone. As opposed to the 15-20 pokes it'd take w/o CMW. It is quite hard dodging other, more damaging attacks long enough to get those 20 pokes in. But yes, on some weapons buffs are incredibly OP.

    I thought you meant straight swords, but you meant rapiers. Rapier attack speed and poke ability greatly make up for their damage, well maybe actually they are a little weak, but buffed certainly brings them over the effective threshold of most weapons.

    Knight Alundil wrote:
    Spurgun wrote:
    ChizFreak wrote:

    At 120 all builds are balanced. It's the perfect level. Why do you think they are OP? One great magic barrier and they are denied. Crest SHield +5. Good dodging. At that level one should have at least one tool to counter magic-based attacks. Either good endurance for dodging, a good shield, good heavy armor, or miracles. They are not OP. Only thing that were OP, were backstabs. And in the PC edition their damage was reduced along with ripostes. And the Hornet's Ring was nerfed to +30%.

    And highest critical damage weapon in the game (the Dark Silver Tracer) can't be enchanted.

    As i said, i go to lower sl's. That solves the problem for me.

    And sl 120 builds aren't balanced. Buffs rule. Any pure dex/str build is weaker than a buff build (i beat people with buff builds, but that's because of skill. Not because my builds are more powerful). And good luck stopping SLB with a GMB.
    Almost everyone has more than enough endurance to dodge, it isn't an advantage.
    Shields doesn't stop the chip damage, or bleed, or deadangles, or BS's.
    How do miracles help against buffs?
    And heavy armor doesn't help that much.
    Buffs gives them a minute to attack you, dealing a lot of damage with every hit. And you can trade blows. So you have to turtle or dodge. And when their buff runs out, you'll probably been hit at least once, and they either have a weapon that is still very strong or they can switch to one. So the "real" fight will start with you at lower health.


    This is going by your skill, not everyones. Many other people including myself can counter buffs easily with these abilitys.

    Maybe I couldnt with you, but that doesn't mean that no one could.

    But this is the point, if someone buffs a Dex weapon they could easily make it so you trade blows with ever swing, and unless you are using a buffed strength weapon they are still going to be doing more damage than you.

    So yes, your option is to run away for a minute until the buff runs out because there is no effective way to launch an offense.

    Jansports wrote:I think you underestimate the actual damage difference from 420ar down to 332, it's sizable. And splitting AR is a pretty big deal as well.

    You are making trade offs for investing the points to cast a buff, if it gets turtled/kited off then you're weaker for the rest of the fight, any fight you cannot buff for it's similar. You buff? No 45dex cast speed, no easily past diminishing returns scaling from str for 2handing with 30 (saves 10 points) No extra health No extra burden no Homing soul mass/ no WoG/

    That's the point. When you CHOOSE to make a character a certain way you trade X for Y and Z for W, A for B and D for T. You don't get everything. You get what you choose.

    If, as you say, a 30fai Divine weapon's damage is "Comparable" to a 40dex's Pure AR then currently Elemental weapons(Chaos and Lit both have higher total AR than the divine you proposed) would out put similar damage to a 40dex Scaling weapon, which we know to be untrue. Else EVERY build would be an Ele vit gouge. (also we empirically know 420 pure AR is better than the 498 split of the lit uchi, making the 431 split of the divine proposed for use when a buff runs dry is certainly a handicap)

    Sure 88 damage doesn't seem like much on paper, but if we look at it the other way going from 332 to 420 is ~about~ a 33% increase. All the time. AND if 500 split AR is not as profitable for damage as 420 pure (comparing 40dex +15 to +5 chaos) then a mere 20% increase to 700 split AR. temporarily, is perhaps not as overwhelmingly more powerful than first imagined.

    You mentioned that buffing you lose access to be other unique builds, but yes of course you do, but I am arguing that of the possible unique builds to use buffing builds are the most powerful.

    When my friends started playing the game they quickly adapted to making a few buff builds. After about two weeks my best friend refused to buff his weapons in matches. He said it just left a bad taste in his mouth, and from then on he only reserved it for other buffers.

    Further if you can buff, it isn't as if you can only buff. Players who use wrath of gods or CHSM respectively to their buff. They aren't really sacrificing anything if they are already a miracle or magic build to have one atunement slot used to give themselves the undenyably strongest weapons in the game.

    On AR, for the buffed AR, although it is split, the damage from both splits is high enough that both end up getting increasing returns at the range that they are at so the penalty is much less due to split damage. We don't really have to go off our general math here, we have both played Dark Souls, we know that buffs lay down serious damage.

    On the other hand the weapon unbuffed is much less than if 40 DEX was used (33% you said), but that was with my straight canned example build. It wasn't built to maximize damage, simply to showcase the advantage of a buff on the simplest DEX build. If I worked a little harder and shaved off points where it would have made more sense on END and such I'm sure I could have worked the weapon unbuffed up to 28.

    http://tinyurl.com/9fzbkgw

    Even so with the backup divine weapon (which is not an elemental that will be nerfed post-patched), although that doesn't have as much damage, split damage around that range still does a reasonable amount of damage for players to fear. Not to mention the obvious advantage that many players choose to ignore in these weapons which is chip damage.


    _________________
    *Busy Drawing*
    Xbl: A Buggy Virus
    Whelp, now I have positive rep.
    Reputation : 30
    Positive votes received : 80
    Negative votes received : 74

    callipygias
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1776
    Reputation : 93
    Join date : 2012-02-18
    Age : 48
    Location : Oregon, US

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by callipygias on Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:36 pm

    zzombieboy wrote:The majority of the changes in Prepare to Die actually make the game harder.

    All this said, how many people do you actually know who mainly play this for PvE?

    Secondly; a lot of the changes are oriented towards fixing peoples PvP gripes Do you honestly think these changes were made with PvE as the main motivation?
    I guess I'll address these points.

    Yes, they do make the game harder. That's sort of the Souls series niche.

    And, uh... yes. I know lots of people who mainly pve. I'd guess that at any given moment there are 10 players going through a level for every 1 invader in that level. Just a guess though.

    Yes, those changes are pve-based. I'm sure that Fromsoft would only go ahead with them if they were also conducive to the pvp community's endless gripes, but I'm sure the game comes first. I'm not trying to convince you, though.


    _________________
    XBL: callipygias33
    PSN: callipygias33


    "It's just common sense to NOT go into battle naked." ~ Yarxov

    "Billy - what type of gladiator do you plan on being?" ~ TehInfamousAmos

    "Troll the big drunk guy at the bar. Get punched in the face. Repeat until desire to troll is gone." ~ Forum Pirate
    avatar
    zzombieboy
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 222
    Reputation : 3
    Join date : 2012-06-28
    Location : UK

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by zzombieboy on Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:45 pm

    Making the game even harder at a loss of profit and continuity of the series just for the hell of it is the niche of a game? OK then, sure.

    After people have played through the game once (maybe twice), what makes them come back? What makes the endless PvP/best weapons/best armours etc etc etc threads on this and many other forums. Of course it must be those who endlessly play PvE over and over and over over again for hundreds of hours...

    Evidence, any intelligent opinion, or just more dogmatic spewing?


    _________________
    YOLO, eh? Not in Lordran!
    :blue-orb: :bas:
    avatar
    Knight Alundil
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1435
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-04-09
    Location : Scotland

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by Knight Alundil on Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:47 pm

    So yes, your option is to run away for a minute until the buff runs out because there is no effective way to launch an offense.

    Actually what you have said there is exactly what i'm talking about, funnily enough.

    This is you telling me, and the rest of the dark souls players, what they can and cannot do. I can take people on with buffs. I dont have to run away. That was my point.


    callipygias
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1776
    Reputation : 93
    Join date : 2012-02-18
    Age : 48
    Location : Oregon, US

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by callipygias on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:12 pm

    zzombieboy wrote:Evidence, any intelligent opinion, or just more dogmatic spewing?
    Just more dogmatic spewing, zombie boy. Have a nice day.


    _________________
    XBL: callipygias33
    PSN: callipygias33


    "It's just common sense to NOT go into battle naked." ~ Yarxov

    "Billy - what type of gladiator do you plan on being?" ~ TehInfamousAmos

    "Troll the big drunk guy at the bar. Get punched in the face. Repeat until desire to troll is gone." ~ Forum Pirate
    avatar
    zzombieboy
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 222
    Reputation : 3
    Join date : 2012-06-28
    Location : UK

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by zzombieboy on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:14 pm

    callipygias wrote:
    zzombieboy wrote:Evidence, any intelligent opinion, or just more dogmatic spewing?
    Just more dogmatic spewing, zombie boy. Have a nice day.

    It's zzombieboy. Learn to read, evidently you can't. Enjoy your ignorance.


    _________________
    YOLO, eh? Not in Lordran!
    :blue-orb: :bas:
    avatar
    Knight Alundil
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1435
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-04-09
    Location : Scotland

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by Knight Alundil on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:15 pm

    zzombieboy wrote:
    callipygias wrote:
    zzombieboy wrote:Evidence, any intelligent opinion, or just more dogmatic spewing?
    Just more dogmatic spewing, zombie boy. Have a nice day.

    It's zzombieboy. Learn to read, evidently you can't. Enjoy your ignorance.

    Nice. Not only did you choose to respond with an insult, you chose the lowest form of insult. Grammar. Good call bro.

    avatar
    Tolvo
    Town Crier
    Town Crier

    Posts : 13287
    Reputation : 542
    Join date : 2012-02-01
    Age : 25
    Location : The Forest, Illinois

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by Tolvo on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:17 pm

    Guys, we have differing opinions but it doesn't mean we have to be rude to each other.
    avatar
    zzombieboy
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 222
    Reputation : 3
    Join date : 2012-06-28
    Location : UK

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by zzombieboy on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:20 pm

    Knight Alundil wrote:
    zzombieboy wrote:
    callipygias wrote:
    zzombieboy wrote:Evidence, any intelligent opinion, or just more dogmatic spewing?
    Just more dogmatic spewing, zombie boy. Have a nice day.

    It's zzombieboy. Learn to read, evidently you can't. Enjoy your ignorance.

    Nice. Not only did you choose to respond with an insult, you chose the lowest form of insult. Grammar. Good call bro.

    It's actually quite a valid point. Far too many of the members on this forum just spout off the same garbage that's in 90% of the threads on this forum. This one being a prime example; this thread was not meant to be about what is OP and what is not OP, it was meant to be about the intentions of the developers in including certain game mechanics. Therefore people obviously can't read.

    And since when does blatant ignorance (and recognition of such) deserve praise (the reputation point)?


    Last edited by zzombieboy on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:22 pm; edited 1 time in total


    _________________
    YOLO, eh? Not in Lordran!
    :blue-orb: :bas:
    avatar
    RANT
    Tyler Durden
    Tyler Durden

    Posts : 7779
    Reputation : 268
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Location : Winterfell

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by RANT on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:22 pm

    zzombieboy wrote:Making the game even harder at a loss of profit and continuity of the series just for the hell of it is the niche of a game? OK then, sure.

    After people have played through the game once (maybe twice), what makes them come back? What makes the endless PvP/best weapons/best armours etc etc etc threads on this and many other forums. Of course it must be those who endlessly play PvE over and over and over over again for hundreds of hours...

    Evidence, any intelligent opinion, or just more dogmatic spewing?

    Number one. yes it is, from are known for that.
    Number two. Yes believe it or not most people do not like to play online, the proof is everywhere, games like cod or bf3 sell millions of copies but only about say thirty percent play online and you can see it in call of duty cause they have the number of people that have signed up for multiplayer, its everywhere and the fact that you choose to ignore makes no sense to me, you sound like those people that ignore the fact that global warming is not happening.


    _________________
    Night gathers, and now my watch begins.
    I am the sword in the darkness, I am the watcher on the walls, I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realm of men.
    I pledge my life and honor to the knight's watch for this night and all the nights to come.
    avatar
    Knight Alundil
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1435
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-04-09
    Location : Scotland

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by Knight Alundil on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:25 pm

    zzombieboy wrote:
    Knight Alundil wrote:
    zzombieboy wrote:
    callipygias wrote:
    zzombieboy wrote:Evidence, any intelligent opinion, or just more dogmatic spewing?
    Just more dogmatic spewing, zombie boy. Have a nice day.

    It's zzombieboy. Learn to read, evidently you can't. Enjoy your ignorance.

    Nice. Not only did you choose to respond with an insult, you chose the lowest form of insult. Grammar. Good call bro.

    It's actually quite a valid point. Far too many of the members on this forum just spout off the same garbage that's in 90% of the threads on this forum. This one being a prime example; this thread was not meant to be about what is OP and what is not OP, it was meant to be about the intentions of the developers in including certain game mechanics. Therefore people obviously can't read.

    And since when does blatant ignorance (and recognition of such) deserve praise (the reputation point)?

    Im not going to get into another arguement with another person today, especially if it's about manners.

    And you mean the uprep on his postabout dogmatic spewing? Yes, it made me laugh.

    avatar
    Buggy Virus
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1279
    Reputation : 37
    Join date : 2012-04-11
    Location : Firelink

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by Buggy Virus on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:25 pm

    Knight Alundil wrote:
    So yes, your option is to run away for a minute until the buff runs out because there is no effective way to launch an offense.

    Actually what you have said there is exactly what i'm talking about, funnily enough.

    This is you telling me, and the rest of the dark souls players, what they can and cannot do. I can take people on with buffs. I dont have to run away. That was my point.

    Well. . . True. . . people if they are better can still choose to launch a full offense and may succeed. . . 😕

    BUT IT'S STILL IN ADVANTAGE FOR THE BUFFING PLAYER. . .

    So. . . Humph. There's my opinion. tongue


    On the other hand, this name calling over going on. Come on guys. . .


    _________________
    *Busy Drawing*
    Xbl: A Buggy Virus
    Whelp, now I have positive rep.
    Reputation : 30
    Positive votes received : 80
    Negative votes received : 74
    avatar
    ChizFreak
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2388
    Reputation : 135
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Location : Eye of Terror

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by ChizFreak on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:26 pm

    To me, the game is balanced. There are lots of tools to counter everything. People just don't want to use them because they either don't like them or are unable to perform them.

    Backstabs, parrys and ripostes. With those two I can *** any katana user. I don't care if they any buff. It's not about buffs. It's about the weapon you're playing against. The buff only makes it so you can't make more mistakes.

    As I said, there are plenty of ways to counter everything, seems that some people just want to invent a build of their mind and want it to be effective against everything, and if not, then something it's wrong.

    All of this applies to the PS3 version. But of course, right now, my point of view is from the PC edition with all the changes it brought. I agree that some things are better in PC because of the balance changes, but still, only thing it do was to change the metagame. Now instead of everyone using DWGR and Giants, we have people using Dark Sorceries with Soul Spear. How to counter it? Great Magic Barrier. Dodge and Backstab. Silver Pendant (don't search about this if you don't want spoilers), Crest Shield.

    Everything is balanced. Obviously there are some better than others, but that's why you can choose between effectiveness and what you like. If you got enough skill you can beat most effective things with what you like, that doesn't mean things are unbalanced, that mean the system works, what would be point if everything is the same.


    _________________
    ChizFreak
    A.K.A
    The Ninja Assassin - 1st Leeroy Cosplayer
    Master Backstabber - Daddy Long Legs


    PSN ID: ChizFreak - Steam ID: ChizFreak - YT: http://www.youtube.com/user/ChizFreak
    avatar
    zzombieboy
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 222
    Reputation : 3
    Join date : 2012-06-28
    Location : UK

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by zzombieboy on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:27 pm

    RantFromRant wrote:
    zzombieboy wrote:Making the game even harder at a loss of profit and continuity of the series just for the hell of it is the niche of a game? OK then, sure.

    After people have played through the game once (maybe twice), what makes them come back? What makes the endless PvP/best weapons/best armours etc etc etc threads on this and many other forums. Of course it must be those who endlessly play PvE over and over and over over again for hundreds of hours...

    Evidence, any intelligent opinion, or just more dogmatic spewing?

    Number one. yes it is, from are known for that.
    Number two. Yes believe it or not most people do not like to play online, the proof is everywhere, games like cod or bf3 sell millions of copies but only about say thirty percent play online and you can see it in call of duty cause they have the number of people that have signed up for multiplayer, its everywhere and the fact that you choose to ignore makes no sense to me, you sound like those people that ignore the fact that global warming is not happening.


    Read my previous (again with this!?) Perhaps caps will help. THE MAJORITY OF THE CHANGES IN THE PREPARE TO DIE EDITION WERE INCREDIBLY OBVIOUSLY FOR THE BENEFIT OF PVP, YET PEOPLE (DESPITE POINTS INDICATING THE CONTRARY) CONTINUE TO SAY 'this game is just for pve, From didn't change anything for pvp or intenD it to be a major feature' WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE OR EVEN INTELLIGIBLE REASONING FOR HOLDING SUCH AN OPINION.


    _________________
    YOLO, eh? Not in Lordran!
    :blue-orb: :bas:
    avatar
    Tolvo
    Town Crier
    Town Crier

    Posts : 13287
    Reputation : 542
    Join date : 2012-02-01
    Age : 25
    Location : The Forest, Illinois

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by Tolvo on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:29 pm

    Areas added with a main focus on PvE, to my understanding two or three. Areas added with the main intent of PvP, 1. Areas in the original game with the intent of PvE, all of them. Areas in the game with the focus being PvP, possibl two, if you consider Dark Anor Londo, and Painted World.
    avatar
    Knight Alundil
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1435
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-04-09
    Location : Scotland

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by Knight Alundil on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:30 pm

    Buggy Virus wrote:
    Knight Alundil wrote:
    So yes, your option is to run away for a minute until the buff runs out because there is no effective way to launch an offense.

    Actually what you have said there is exactly what i'm talking about, funnily enough.

    This is you telling me, and the rest of the dark souls players, what they can and cannot do. I can take people on with buffs. I dont have to run away. That was my point.

    Well. . . True. . . people if they are better can still choose to launch a full offense and may succeed. . . 😕

    BUT IT'S STILL IN ADVANTAGE FOR THE BUFFING PLAYER. . .

    So. . . Humph. There's my opinion. tongue


    On the other hand, this name calling over going on. Come on guys. . .

    I totally agree with you. The SLB buff is slightly op because of lightning resist being generally lower, but i'd say it fits with the lore. big grin

    zzombieboy wrote:
    RantFromRant wrote:
    zzombieboy wrote:Making the
    game even harder at a loss of profit and continuity of the series just
    for the hell of it is the niche of a game? OK then, sure.

    After
    people have played through the game once (maybe twice), what makes them
    come back? What makes the endless PvP/best weapons/best armours etc etc
    etc threads on this and many other forums. Of course it must be those
    who endlessly play PvE over and over and over over again for hundreds of
    hours...

    Evidence, any intelligent opinion, or just more dogmatic spewing?

    Number one. yes it is, from are known for that.
    Number
    two. Yes believe it or not most people do not like to play online, the
    proof is everywhere, games like cod or bf3 sell millions of copies but
    only about say thirty percent play online and you can see it in call of
    duty cause they have the number of people that have signed up for
    multiplayer, its everywhere and the fact that you choose to ignore makes
    no sense to me, you sound like those people that ignore the fact that
    global warming is not happening.


    Read my previous
    (again with this!?) Perhaps caps will help. THE MAJORITY OF THE CHANGES
    IN THE PREPARE TO DIE EDITION WERE INCREDIBLY OBVIOUSLY FOR THE BENEFIT
    OF PVP, YET PEOPLE (DESPITE POINTS INDICATING THE CONTRARY) CONTINUE TO
    SAY 'this game is just for pve, From didn't change anything for pvp or
    intenD it to be a major feature' WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE OR EVEN
    INTELLIGIBLE REASONING FOR HOLDING SUCH AN OPINION.

    Dude I really almost got it that time. Cant you make the letters any bigger?

    avatar
    zzombieboy
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 222
    Reputation : 3
    Join date : 2012-06-28
    Location : UK

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by zzombieboy on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:32 pm

    Rather than attempting sarcasm, how about you actually consider a valid point(s)?


    _________________
    YOLO, eh? Not in Lordran!
    :blue-orb: :bas:
    avatar
    Bcc17
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 577
    Reputation : 19
    Join date : 2012-05-23
    Age : 22
    Location : Buffalo, NY

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by Bcc17 on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:33 pm

    Knight Alundil wrote:
    Buggy Virus wrote:
    Knight Alundil wrote:
    So yes, your option is to run away for a minute until the buff runs out because there is no effective way to launch an offense.

    Actually what you have said there is exactly what i'm talking about, funnily enough.

    This is you telling me, and the rest of the dark souls players, what they can and cannot do. I can take people on with buffs. I dont have to run away. That was my point.

    Well. . . True. . . people if they are better can still choose to launch a full offense and may succeed. . . 😕

    BUT IT'S STILL IN ADVANTAGE FOR THE BUFFING PLAYER. . .

    So. . . Humph. There's my opinion. tongue


    On the other hand, this name calling over going on. Come on guys. . .

    I totally agree with you. The SLB buff is slightly op because of lightning resist being generally lower, but i'd say it fits with the lore. big grin

    zzombieboy wrote:
    RantFromRant wrote:
    zzombieboy wrote:Making the
    game even harder at a loss of profit and continuity of the series just
    for the hell of it is the niche of a game? OK then, sure.

    After
    people have played through the game once (maybe twice), what makes them
    come back? What makes the endless PvP/best weapons/best armours etc etc
    etc threads on this and many other forums. Of course it must be those
    who endlessly play PvE over and over and over over again for hundreds of
    hours...

    Evidence, any intelligent opinion, or just more dogmatic spewing?

    Number one. yes it is, from are known for that.
    Number
    two. Yes believe it or not most people do not like to play online, the
    proof is everywhere, games like cod or bf3 sell millions of copies but
    only about say thirty percent play online and you can see it in call of
    duty cause they have the number of people that have signed up for
    multiplayer, its everywhere and the fact that you choose to ignore makes
    no sense to me, you sound like those people that ignore the fact that
    global warming is not happening.


    Read my previous
    (again with this!?) Perhaps caps will help. THE MAJORITY OF THE CHANGES
    IN THE PREPARE TO DIE EDITION WERE INCREDIBLY OBVIOUSLY FOR THE BENEFIT
    OF PVP, YET PEOPLE (DESPITE POINTS INDICATING THE CONTRARY) CONTINUE TO
    SAY 'this game is just for pve, From didn't change anything for pvp or
    intenD it to be a major feature' WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE OR EVEN
    INTELLIGIBLE REASONING FOR HOLDING SUCH AN OPINION.

    Dude I really almost got it that time. Cant you make the letters any bigger?

    Probably not, but I can make the quote box bigger big grin


    _________________
    avatar
    Knight Alundil
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1435
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-04-09
    Location : Scotland

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by Knight Alundil on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:34 pm

    zzombieboy wrote:Rather than attempting sarcasm, how about you actually consider a valid point(s)?

    Okay I admit I didnt even read it. As soon as you said "Caps will help" I lost interest. You can't fault me at all for that though that's your reasoning capabilities.

    avatar
    Buggy Virus
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1279
    Reputation : 37
    Join date : 2012-04-11
    Location : Firelink

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by Buggy Virus on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:35 pm

    zzombieboy wrote:
    RantFromRant wrote:
    zzombieboy wrote:Making the game even harder at a loss of profit and continuity of the series just for the hell of it is the niche of a game? OK then, sure.

    After people have played through the game once (maybe twice), what makes them come back? What makes the endless PvP/best weapons/best armours etc etc etc threads on this and many other forums. Of course it must be those who endlessly play PvE over and over and over over again for hundreds of hours...

    Evidence, any intelligent opinion, or just more dogmatic spewing?

    Number one. yes it is, from are known for that.
    Number two. Yes believe it or not most people do not like to play online, the proof is everywhere, games like cod or bf3 sell millions of copies but only about say thirty percent play online and you can see it in call of duty cause they have the number of people that have signed up for multiplayer, its everywhere and the fact that you choose to ignore makes no sense to me, you sound like those people that ignore the fact that global warming is not happening.


    Read my previous (again with this!?) Perhaps caps will help. THE MAJORITY OF THE CHANGES IN THE PREPARE TO DIE EDITION WERE INCREDIBLY OBVIOUSLY FOR THE BENEFIT OF PVP, YET PEOPLE (DESPITE POINTS INDICATING THE CONTRARY) CONTINUE TO SAY 'this game is just for pve, From didn't change anything for pvp or intenD it to be a major feature' WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE OR EVEN INTELLIGIBLE REASONING FOR HOLDING SUCH AN OPINION.

    This thread wasn't saying that the game doesn't work for PvP. . . :pale:

    Or that the developers don't seriously consider it.

    More that it isn't the main focus, and certainly isn't meant for dueling structure. . .

    ChizFreak wrote:To me, the game is balanced. There are lots of tools to counter everything. People just don't want to use them because they either don't like them or are unable to perform them.

    Backstabs, parrys and ripostes. With those two I can *** any katana user. I don't care if they any buff. It's not about buffs. It's about the weapon you're playing against. The buff only makes it so you can't make more mistakes.

    As I said, there are plenty of ways to counter everything, seems that some people just want to invent a build of their mind and want it to be effective against everything, and if not, then something it's wrong.

    All of this applies to the PS3 version. But of course, right now, my point of view is from the PC edition with all the changes it brought. I agree that some things are better in PC because of the balance changes, but still, only thing it do was to change the metagame. Now instead of everyone using DWGR and Giants, we have people using Dark Sorceries with Soul Spear. How to counter it? Great Magic Barrier. Dodge and Backstab. Silver Pendant (don't search about this if you don't want spoilers), Crest Shield.

    Everything is balanced. Obviously there are some better than others, but that's why you can choose between effectiveness and what you like. If you got enough skill you can beat most effective things with what you like, that doesn't mean things are unbalanced, that mean the system works, what would be point if everything is the same.

    I agree fully, I am completely unspoiled as to new content though so I can't comment. Like I said before I think buffs tip that balance a little too much, but I certainly don't mean to say that they can't be beat or countered.


    On just a random side note, this thread has been really interesting for my reputation that has changed everytime I came back to the computer, so see it go up, then down then back to it's original value. 😕 we're silly.


    _________________
    *Busy Drawing*
    Xbl: A Buggy Virus
    Whelp, now I have positive rep.
    Reputation : 30
    Positive votes received : 80
    Negative votes received : 74
    avatar
    Baal-Avatar
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1739
    Reputation : 302
    Join date : 2012-01-16

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by Baal-Avatar on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:35 pm

    Keep this thread on topic or it will be locked.
    avatar
    Knight Alundil
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1435
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-04-09
    Location : Scotland

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by Knight Alundil on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:36 pm

    Knight Alundil wrote:
    zzombieboy wrote:Rather than attempting sarcasm, how about you actually consider a valid point(s)?

    Okay I admit I didnt even read it. As soon as you said "Caps will help" I lost interest. You can't fault me at all for that though that's your reasoning capabilities.

    Ok I read it and if you actually look back at all the posts i've made you'll see why what you said has no relation to any point I made. It's only relevant to what other people said. I have said nothing of PvE and PvP. I'm talking about the game as a whole. Any debate down that road I have not been involved in happy

    So y'know... maybe read properly before you insult people about not being able to read big grin

    avatar
    zzombieboy
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 222
    Reputation : 3
    Join date : 2012-06-28
    Location : UK

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by zzombieboy on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:36 pm

    Tolvo wrote:Areas added with a main focus on PvE, to my understanding two or three. Areas added with the main intent of PvP, 1. Areas in the original game with the intent of PvE, all of them. Areas in the game with the focus being PvP, possibl two, if you consider Dark Anor Londo, and Painted World.

    What the heck do areas matter? What were they supposed to add as new content? Loading screens? Areas equally benefit Pve and PvP. Look at what they fixed/nerfed, and honestly tell me that you think most of the significant changes were mainly for PvE.


    _________________
    YOLO, eh? Not in Lordran!
    :blue-orb: :bas:
    avatar
    zzombieboy
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 222
    Reputation : 3
    Join date : 2012-06-28
    Location : UK

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by zzombieboy on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:37 pm

    BaalDS wrote:Keep this thread on topic or it will be locked.

    95% of this thread hasn't been on topic. You may as well lock it (and 70% of the other threads on here).


    _________________
    YOLO, eh? Not in Lordran!
    :blue-orb: :bas:
    avatar
    Knight Alundil
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1435
    Reputation : 67
    Join date : 2012-04-09
    Location : Scotland

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by Knight Alundil on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:39 pm

    zzombieboy wrote:
    BaalDS wrote:Keep this thread on topic or it will be locked.

    95% of this thread hasn't been on topic. You may as well lock it (and 70% of the other threads on here).

    Well you really are just a big sour plum aren't you?


    Sponsored content

    Re: Buffs weren't intended for competitive PvP

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:53 pm