Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

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    Rifter7
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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by Rifter7 on Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:59 pm

    well ublug.. i dont think from patching unnecessarily PUNISHING things is a problem, like the upgrade system or what not.

    in all honesty i felt they made the game a little bit more PUNISHING because they removed all of the enemies, skills and methods of deleveling characters. no one wants to royally eff something up because they just plain didn't know, that's not fun.

    now as far as nerfing things like fog ring and i'm going to throw twop and magic shield in there too, that's for the sake of balance in the games pvp scene. certain things just plain don't work when you start limiting a players core abilities, andif that's not handled right it leaves the game with a bad design, a bad design for any pvp game.

    now.. they did patch the game and they did make it easier. there's no denying that, everything got made to be just bearably hard, where before it was very difficult.

    but here's the thing.. they didn't really nerf the actual AI. they tweaked certain stats of those enemies.. stats that could be overcome before with... guess what? FARMING.
    so in reality.. from just made the game require less farming- which at the start it had a metric s***load of. (i got this game day 1.)

    i feel that from should keep the soul series difficulty, but if they want to nerf things that make me farm like a lunatic or horribly regret an uninformed choice.. fine go ahead. just... start the game off difficult in the right departments and then tone it down to result in faster playthrus later.
    if they dumb it down like you're suggesting i'll not play this game anymore unless the pvp is amazing.

    ps don't ban me for disagreeing lawl!


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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by passivefamiliar on Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:37 am

    AnDThey have been making it easier. Go play demons, its harder. Sure you can farm endless grass, but..no poise (which i prefer, i hate the poise concept, another discussion sorry) demons is harder, hands down. And...not only due to the being harder, but more the feel and environment and npcs and everything, its always better. Dark is catering to the players. I still love it, but ive put it down for a bit. Going back to basics and making some demon souls runs. It just, feels better.


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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by Rifter7 on Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:40 am

    demon's souls pve has always been better in my opinion.


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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by DamageCK on Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:18 am

    It ain't a Souls game unless you seriously consider returning it out of rage several times during your first playthrough.

    People can have their easymode, I don't care. Doesn't effect me. Bummer they'll be missing out on what is arguably the strongest contributing factor to the game being as incredible as it is though. Eh. Like I said, doesn't effect me.


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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:27 am

    I dunno guys, i mean i played dark souls first so my opinion will probably be biased same as yours, but to me demons souls just feels.. well you can tell it's the first game in the series as there's so many things in it which are unbalanced and not quite fully polished.

    Things like almost infinite magic spamming, grass munching, the travesty that is second chance, being able to whack on one ring and bow the entire game.. They're just things that scream inexperience on the part of the developer, though the game is still top class despite that.

    i have to say one of the reasons dark souls i think is easier is because the game was made better balanced and with more tools at your disposal to use. I just feel dark souls is the more complete game, and because of that I enjoy it more.


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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by DamageCK on Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:02 am

    Agreed, Serious.


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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:52 am

    Serious_Much wrote:The thing is mark, the entirety of souls gameplay hinges on the difficulty of it. Without difficulty of heavy hitting foes things like stamina management, poise levels and even the necessity of being careful just get thrown out the window. Without the difficulty of having to find your way with very little guidance you won't have the same satisfaction upon arriving somewhere.

    ...

    Fact is if they changed the difficulty, it wouldn't be the souls series any more, but something entirely different.

    That is true, for me. But are you applying that general sentiment to all players? Is this how all players enjoy a game? I don't believe so.

    I've encountered people that just watch a load of dark souls videos before even playing the game. They know where stuff is, shortcuts, weaknesses, etc, etc. I don't see how that kind of approach is any different.

    Even on this forum, there's beginners asking for build help; a good build can go a very long way. The right weapons, the right armour, the right stats. All of these make the game easier, so I disagree that the game doesn't already support an easy mode. Just one is in the metagame, and if they're thinking of putting one in the main game, hopefully it can attract more players.


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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:03 pm

    IV_Mark_VI wrote:
    Serious_Much wrote:The thing is mark, the entirety of souls gameplay hinges on the difficulty of it. Without difficulty of heavy hitting foes things like stamina management, poise levels and even the necessity of being careful just get thrown out the window. Without the difficulty of having to find your way with very little guidance you won't have the same satisfaction upon arriving somewhere.

    ...

    Fact is if they changed the difficulty, it wouldn't be the souls series any more, but something entirely different.

    That is true, for me. But are you applying that general sentiment to all players? Is this how all players enjoy a game? I don't believe so.

    I've encountered people that just watch a load of dark souls videos before even playing the game. They know where stuff is, shortcuts, weaknesses, etc, etc. I don't see how that kind of approach is any different.

    Even on this forum, there's beginners asking for build help; a good build can go a very long way. The right weapons, the right armour, the right stats. All of these make the game easier, so I disagree that the game doesn't already support an easy mode. Just one is in the metagame, and if they're thinking of putting one in the main game, hopefully it can attract more players.

    You've put in some very good questions there, and i agree wholly that not all players find enjoyment out of beating the hardest thing possible, however for dark souls I believe it is different. Miyazaki himself states that the use of difficulty in dark souls is to create maximum enjoyment and satisfaction, which is a notion i'm sure every last player who has gotten themselves through the game and their first playthrough understands.

    The fact is though, as ublug has stated before even with a good build given to you and you having read guides, the game is still difficult. This is due to the way dark souls is created. It isn't a game that can simply be overcome with stats, it requires a certain degree of skill even with the greatest support of a good build, knowledge of how to kill a boss etc.

    That is why the difficulty in dark souls is special. It's not simply about stats, you have to grow as a player and in understanding of the game to beat it.

    I think we're defining 'easy mode' as different things. to me this mode would be giving enemies less health, lower power etc, and for you seemingly it is telling players what to do, what a good build is, how to get all the best gear.

    Both admittedly make the game easier, but i don't think your way is as easily implemented into a game as the way I think easy mode would be put in. However I think you'll agree the version of easy mode i put forward is one that damages the game's meta moreso than that which you put forward.


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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by SlakeMoth on Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:36 pm

    The arguement is 'academic' now. NamcoBandai have stated that Myazake's comments on the subject were a' mistranslation'. Any future Souls games will have the same level of difficulty.

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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:50 pm

    Excellent; someone lock this thread quick!


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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by callipygias on Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:54 pm

    I used the word "rumor" earlier about this. It was the wrong word, but same effect. Glad they shut it down so fast.


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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:02 pm

    Still, was an interesting discussion.

    Don't change MY game, but do whatever you like to others big grin


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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:07 pm

    I'm glad this is just a mistranslation, I admit when I read the metro article it didn't seem like he intended to make the games easier, but that he said more that in other games the level of difficulty isn't necessary in making the experience enjoyable.

    Glad any misconceptions have now been quashed though, I look forward to the next soul crushing installment lol!


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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by carlucio on Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:33 pm

    SlakeMoth wrote:The arguement is 'academic' now. NamcoBandai have stated that Myazake's comments on the subject were a' mistranslation'. Any future Souls games will have the same level of difficulty.

    Where is the source of it?
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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by carlucio on Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:56 pm

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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:09 pm

    I dunno what you americans know about the metro, but it is a free newspaper given out on public transport that has many questionably sources articles in it.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the guy who wrote the initial article himself put in the apparent mistranslation just to get extra readers.


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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by Argetlam350 on Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:33 am

    Well if you don't trust the metro, Gameinformer also has the same information about the mistranslation:

    http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/09/05/dark-souls-creator-ponders-easy-mode.aspx


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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by SlakeMoth on Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:36 am

    Serious_Much wrote:I dunno what you americans know about the metro, but it is a free newspaper given out on public transport that has many questionably sources articles in it.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the guy who wrote the initial article himself put in the apparent mistranslation just to get extra readers.

    Actually Serious you are wrong. Although gamecentral is on the Metro site, it is independent of the paper itself. Gamecentral is a much respected gaming site which started life on teletext as 'Digitizer' written by Mr. Biffo, who is something of a legend in gaming circles and who, incidentally wrote a column for 'Edge' magazine. When Biffo left gamecentral took over and carried on the good work until Teletext was shut down. There was a petition online to save gamecentral which got over 11,000 signatures. Metro took gamecentral on board and it's been on the site ever since. For my money, it is the best gaming site on the web and I read it everyday. It's journalists are among the best in any sphere not just gaming and go to all the major game conventions and also write for high profile games mags like 'Edge' and 'gamesTM'.

    I am down repping you for this Serious because your comment is based on ignorance and whilst ignorance may be a reason, it is never an excuse.
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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:33 am

    While that is true, I still move to say the metro is a crap newspaper lol!


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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by Raikan007 on Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:11 am

    If they make an easier version, the new game would suffer greatly..

    Why reinvent the wheel?

    If they do do this however, then give the player the option of playing the normal mode or an easy mode when starting a new game...

    The win both ways.. once a new player to the DS world completes it on easy, he can then take the challenge of playing the normal way, either by starting a fresh, or by the game making it even harder by importing the character from the easier playthrough etc...
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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by SlakeMoth on Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:28 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:While that is true, I still move to say the metro is a crap newspaper lol!

    Someone up-repped you for that! I'm done with this forum.
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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:35 pm

    SlakeMoth wrote:
    Serious_Much wrote:While that is true, I still move to say the metro is a crap newspaper lol!

    Someone up-repped you for that! I'm done with this forum.

    'search your feelings, you know it to be true' lol!

    i must be getting desperate if i'm cracking out the star wars references.. not gonna lie, it was probably done out of pity for my down rep of my other comment.. :oops:


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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by L!ve on Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:36 pm

    TehInfamousAmos wrote:The satisfaction is achieved due to the difficulty. If that is wrecked it is satisfying for noone.

    Nail on the head.

    Also make the music with a dubstep sound to it, and the atmosphere more bubbly and in tune with pop culture... think jersy shore meets pokemon... fist pumpin chinpokomon armor. hehe

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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:44 pm

    Ugh, dubstep...


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    Re: Why are people up in arms about "Easy" mode?

    Post by L!ve on Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:08 pm

    lol! ... I do get where you're (OP) coming from with the "easy mode". I'd love for more players to get into the souls games, lord knows I've pleaded with several of my hardcore FPS playing friends only to hear similar responses to the guy in this article.
    carlucio wrote:http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2921965

    Read this, don't you think it's awesome when COD players are kicked out like that?


    I'm still laughin at the guy that responded "Show us on the doll where dark souls touched you" bahahahaha!

    I think that From would have to be a good bit more creative than simply adding an easy setting... I'd really prefer that they didn't do it at all though.

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