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    Do you fight with honor or to survive by any means

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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by Tolvo on Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:41 pm

    Oh no, most Knights were not that noble of people. I don't compare it to them, they were mainly sexist war mongering sociopaths in history.
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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by SunlightCrusader on Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:44 pm

    Tolvo wrote:Yeah I'd say it's pretty on topic, I think we also need to remember how we are treating other people depending on who they are and their experience. A new player without any understanding of the game becomes a human, gets killed by griefers. A common experience for new players that gives them zero chance of winning, they learn nothing other than that they can't play online without dying easily, and it ends up costing them resources. From the perspective of the invader, they're just having fun and playing the game as intended. When we get down too far there is no such thing as wrong, and chaos ensues. I think we need to find a nice balance and voice ourselves better. If I'm fatrolling in stone armor with a stone knight sword with a stone greatshield to cosplay, when you invade flipping with a DMB Washing Pole swinging, then rolling away meaning I have no chance of a victory if we are evenly skilled was the DMB even necessary? To me it seems like the person didn't even wish to fight me and was just trying to get me out of the way for their next fight. I won't message them saying, "DMB? Psshh, what a nub." But all the same I might ask them why they felt the need for the DMB. When it gets to players dueling both with great gear the lines blur a bit more. But the idea of overkill can often be one that really harms other people. It gives them a feeling of being powerless and as the term describes its very unnecessary. How do we know what is overkill though is the issue.

    Ah but I purposely use a weapon that is rather weak when unbuffed. I also can't stand ninja flipping. I understand that frustration as on some of my cosplay toons I have been in that situation. If it would clearly be unfair I usually won't buff but the problem is how exactly to decide when it's unfair as you said. There is no exact way to measure that; it all comes down to personal judgement in that regard.

    Oh and in regards to knights Tolvo is correct. In fact one of the crusades was largely motivated by the fact that knights without a war to fight were pillaging the countrysides of Europe if I recall correctly. I'm sure some knights were honorable folk but my understanding is that the majority were not.


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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by Tolvo on Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:55 pm

    And that's why I think it's best to get bothered by case by case things, rather than just saying "Everyone that uses a buff is a ****." I think some people do make kind of jerkish builds with Buffs, being able to deal 900 damage a hit...I use one in the forest hehe so I'm calling the kettle black. Still, I have a right to complain just as you have a right to play as you play. But I do get having builds where the buff is needed. I have a Co-Op toon like that, against invaders it pretty much deals no damage unless I buff with CMW.
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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by Ghadis_God on Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:04 am

    This is just a game, why would I do anything to survive? Playing with honor heightens the experience, the opportunity to do so is almost singularly unique in multiplayer videogames. If I fight with honor against dishonorable people and get killed, what do I lose? Absolutely nothing. But winning with honor is fulfilling, that's what makes PvP better than any other multiplayer.


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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by Phantasmio on Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:07 am

    Depending on who I'm fighting, i typically prefer to be honorable.
    Two vs Ones are another story, though. I have no choice but to fight for survival until I get better.


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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by SunlightCrusader on Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:11 am

    Yeah I love how Ricard's Rapier looks but without a buff it is not that effective. Even buffed I don't deal unfair amounts of damage, just enough to put me on par with most elemental weapons. Used correctly it can be devastating with DMB but individual hits are normal amounts of damage. Really I only complain about those things that the Dark Souls community has established as taboo aka hacking, glitching , and ganking. Other than that all is fair in my mind though if you do something such as heal I will respond in kind by healing myself and launching into to ruthless DMB attacks. If you chug repeatedly I may even try a chainstab which I pretty much never do. I suppose as you said our actions and opinions are defined in each individual match rather than as a general statement.


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    In response to Ghadis God

    Post by Lord of Ash on Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:11 am

    Its not about what you loose and I know its a game but when i say honor and survive I use survive in a way as being opposite of what is considered honor a surviver definately dies like honor its just another way of playing
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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by Tolvo on Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:18 am

    I get what you mean ash, kill by any means is a common train of thought in gaming. I think while it stands that in games we don't feel the need to survive, some also game because they know they can let out their aggressive side without actually hurting anyone physically or in person.

    If you want great fun, R2 Leo Ring with RTSR active, 77 poise, DMB Buff+3 on a Ricard's. Set it up so around 700 damage, the normal damage of a greatsword puts you at low health. Press R2 just as they are swinging, and get three counters that instantly kill them. Doesn't always work but it's an interesting way to kill.
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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by Lord of Ash on Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:20 am

    thanx man


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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by oregonav8r on Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:56 am

    I would play honorably if I was doing "formal" PvP, with other players who were also doing formal PvP. But if its a random invasion scenario, I'll play to win, by any means necessary (except cheating of course). My theory is, if someone invades you, they are interupting your world, and your game...so treat them no different as a part of the naturally occuring enemies in the world. If an invader wants to do "formal" PvP they can use an RSS.

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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by DoughGuy on Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:27 am

    I still treat pvp as part of the "having fun" part of having a game. To me "honor" (I use the word loosely) makes the game more fun for both sides. I also respect my opponents (till they give me reason not to) so I don't be a douche to them unprovoked.


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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:20 am

    DoughGuy wrote:I still treat pvp as part of the "having fun" part of having a game. To me "honor" (I use the word loosely) makes the game more fun for both sides. I also respect my opponents (till they give me reason not to) so I don't be a douche to them unprovoked.

    Im of the opposite opinion. I personally think that seeing as honour is so subjective all it does is make PvP sterile. You either fight to the generic rules establised by the community, eg no healing, no BS, no whatever, or you get the opposite where people rail against it and poise BS, make cookie cutters, etc.

    In my mind the only real PvP enjoyment comes from that one opponent in twenty who guns for the kill. That guy who you play cat and mouse with, who pulls clever moves not simple BS fishing or ambushes but takes the fight on his terms.

    To me that is a pure PvP experience. Which is why I like the forest now at around SL 70-80, as there the Forest Hunters want nothing more that to disembowel you and will pull all sorts of unique tactics from calling mobs, to evading untill allies arrive, or even whipping out some of the craziest weapon and armour combos ive ever seen.


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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by Tolvo on Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:42 am

    And to me that is boring Viral, because to me those people are usually the most predictable ones with the cookie cutter builds.
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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by passivefamiliar on Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:01 am

    I fight in accordance to my opponent. If you heal, i'll punish you if i can or at least heal as well. But i wont heal first. One fight, i was losing. Bad. I had no hp left hardly, his tactics were better then me. So, i bow'd midfight. The guy stopped. Bow'd as well. And black crystaled out. It was a thing of beauty.

    I enjoy good fights. If others play in'unfair' ways, i usually quit fighting. Strip and do the shrug animation. Making their victory as hollow as i can.i refuse to cater to wrath spamming fishers.


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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:13 am

    Tolvo wrote:And to me that is boring Viral, because to me those people are usually the most predictable ones with the cookie cutter builds.

    True but I dont think my build is too cookie cutter. Great Scy and combo of Havels and Hollow Thiefs.

    And I sort of know what you mean. Half the time you get try hards with the flipping Havels of Giants but I do like those guys who wear Dark Armour. They oft give me a good fight....

    oh and when I was saying they go for the kill I mean that they make use of the games mechanics without exploiting them.

    I had a few fights this evening in the forest and my rival used dead angling, mobs, forest geography to get me. I loved that.


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    Where are the survivors who play dirty?

    Post by Lord of Ash on Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:09 pm

    I started this thread to see how people fight with honor or survival tactics and so far everybody claims to play with honor. Yet in the game i see far more Survivors who glitch, gank, and break the rules.Where are these people, step up dont be shy; I started this to see how people play theres to be no judging, only opinions.


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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by Tolvo on Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:14 pm

    Sadly people on this forum don't represent the majority.
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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:14 pm

    LordofAsh wrote:I started this thread to see how people fight with honor or survival tactics and so far everybody claims to play with honor. Yet in the game i see far more Survivors who glitch gank and break the rules.

    I fight in a survivalistic manner.

    Im not going to claim, any more that I fight with honour, I've Ganked (true I didnt know what that meant then but...), Ive Chain Stabbed, Wog Spamed, etc

    I cant erase that by playing honourably (though thats not to say playing honourably doesnt have its merits), so I duel when people bow, wont BS unless BSed, will dead angle all day long, etc

    Yup. I like to think that after my fights I can come out of it saying that I thought it was a good fight and that my opponent thought it was a good fight. This may not be true but....

    I think a lot of people wont admit that they are subjectively honourable.

    20 to 8 that seems a little too good to be true.


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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by bloodpixel on Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:31 pm

    Honor usually goes out the window when I have 7 million souls and 99 humanity on the line.


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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by reim0027 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:32 pm

    I fight both ways. Depending on where I am and how my opponent behaves.

    If I'm in the forest, then Survival. If I'm invading, then heal if my opponent heals. If I'm dueling, then I follow the rules of engagement for that duel (usually no healing, no spamming).


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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by Yarxov on Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:49 pm

    LordofAsh wrote:I want to know whats more important to a warrior honor or survival?

    Honor: You play by the GOLDEN RULE Bowing no ganking or healing(or whatever principles make up you honor)

    Survivor: You play dirty and ganking to you is no different than hunting like a pack of wolves

    Or for the polite survivor you invade or get invaded then trade, after all friends are better than foes
    I object to that biased definition of survival, Ganking doe not equal fighting for survival in any way, fighting for survival is taking any chance you get to fight back, 1v1 or otherwise, I fight for survival but wouldnt ever gank. Playing dirty is everywhere, and when everything is dirty it loses its irregularity and can no longer be treated as abnormal.


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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by Lord of Ash on Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:45 pm

    Ganking is very much a way to survive its deemed Dirty and hated but it is a tecnique to survive hense survival


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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by Tolvo on Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:48 pm

    Yeah, it is pretty much survival mentality at its core.
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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by Lord of Ash on Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:52 pm

    Yea if you fight honorably one on one no healing your chance of victory are limited to your skills. Where as when you gank you chances are doubled based on however many people are ganking and their combined skills so its definately survival


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    Re: END OF THREAD THANKS FOR POSTING (Lock please)

    Post by Yarxov on Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:29 am

    LordofAsh wrote:Ganking is very much a way to survive its deemed Dirty and hated but it is a tecnique to survive hense survival
    This is untrue, it is a way to survive but is not survival. Taking an extension of one thing and declaring it the definition of its varied source is in short ignorant.
    There are many paths for survival, ganking is the dirtiest of them , but it is not the only.


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