Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by Anonymous Proxy on Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:58 am

    SEANB240 wrote:^Nice avatar!

    Orango19 wrote:@OP : Beatrice traversing the Abyss.

    Interesting point! What was the lore behind her again? You find her stuff near the Valley of Drakes, right?


    Beatrice is a witch... who traverses the Abyss. You posted a picture of a little girl earlier, wearing similar clothes trying to control Gut's ego.

    That girl's name is Schierke. She is a cute little thing who has a father/daughter relationship with Gatsu. That is that relationship between her and Beatrice.


    SIDE NOTE! You can summon her to fight against the Four Kings... << Fight the Four Kings... Sort of take control and end the Kings... Just like Schierke and the Four Kings of the World.

    More Notes.

    Beatrice is a self made woman, and somewhat of a rogue witch. She was never a student of the Vinheim Dragon School, but learned her trait from her elders, like a proper witch should. Her catalyst is also handed down, from a lineage of witches, and bears the marks of casting age-old sorceries.

    Schierke learned her magic from her "elder grandmother". Therefore, tying them somewhat closer. She doesn't like false magic either, much like the Vinheim's magic. She likes pure magic of the soul.

    One more note: Beatrice's Catalyst was passed down through ancient ancestors. << >> Flora was like centuries old because she personally knew the Skull Knight in his human form. MOAR TYING. Also Schierke means Unspoilt wood.
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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by Orango19 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:51 am

    SEANB240 wrote:
    ^ I'm also wondering if there could be a connection between the new Band of the Hawk and Artorias's group. Assassin: Check, Badass Archer: Check, Spearguy: Check.

    The general vibe of that portion of the arc is very reminiscent to me of DaS, as the Hawk of Light seems to fight on behalf of all people, but the motives and endgoal...definitely don't seem to be in the best interests of humanity. On the other hand, the Black Swordsman, whose only real motive is rage (besides Casca), stands opposed to this Light. But if he puts a stop to Griffith, the world (or Midland, at least) will be broken apart again and at the mercy of Abyssal demons, though it won't be under the unified rule of a reborn Apostle.

    It seems like a no-win situation.


    I just began reading Berserk and I still can't remember all the characters names. But you are definitely on the right way here.
    Casca, if that is the woman officer of the band of the Hawk , she is definitely Ciaran.
    The girl from Berserk says she is Griffith's Sword...
    ...Lord's Blade Ciaran.


    Spoiler:


    EDIT

    Spoiler:

    Try to imagine those two as Artorias and Ciaran; and that they are in Oolacile. lol

    *last edit*
    I put the images inside spoiler boxes, cause they are big as hell



     


    Last edited by Orango19 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by SEANB240 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:16 pm

    ^ That could be, but I was thinking more...Well, I don't want to spoil anything for you. I'll just say the Band goes through some rather drastic changes later on.


    Anonymous Proxy wrote:Awesome Beatrice/Schierke stuff

    Awesome. I knew Beatrice was involved with the Abyss, but that is really good stuff there. I wasn't all that familiar with Schierke, though. I pretty much have jumped from right after the Tower of Retribution and Griffith's fight against the Kushan to the Sea God thing, so I have missed a lot of issues in between.
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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by Orango19 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:42 pm

    About the Way of the White.
    It's kinda interesting how the Way of the White is kinda "Gwyn's Army" (kinda, but not really). Unlike other servants of the gods, the Way of the White dudes are kinda recognized by Gwyn. Like an important title.
    Which reminds me of...

    Spoiler:


    Last edited by Orango19 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by Anonymous Proxy on Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:10 pm

    Orango. You blew my mind with the Artorias/Guts and Ciaran/Casca ****.

    I have NEVER seen it that way.

    PERSPECTIVE TIMES, BRO.

    Guts is unmatchable with a Greatsword. He wields the fricin Dragonslayer. An iron Blade made to SLAUGHTER Dragons, created by the Goldo (iirc). It has magic that allows it to slaughter Apostles.

    Okay, so the King wanted the Dragonslayer made by Godo to help slaughter the Dragons. >> Artorias is one of Gwyn's ultimate Knights... <.<; who y'know... gained honor during the Age of the Ancients against 'dem DragonBros. GREATSWORD SLAUGHTERING ZE DARG0NS?!

    -cough-

    (sorry I keep editing)

    <.< MAGIC THAT CAN SLAUGHTER APOSTLES.

    GSOA True and Cursed: Has magic for True. Can slaughter the Ghosts, cursed.

    <___< SUP ARTORIAS GUTS BRO?!

    Ciaran is a Dagger wielder... and who is just as fast as her?! Casca! She is incredibly quick when she isn't menstruating out. Plus, she is envious and jealous of Guts (Mainly because of how much Griffith looks at him ).

    If we look at it this way... Casca is envious and jealous of Guts, as Ciaran might have been of Artorias. AND THEY DID END UP MAKING WHOOPY. So love, who knows?


    Last edited by Anonymous Proxy on Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by SEANB240 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:15 pm

    The DBS/Keel Smasher is a nod to Guts's Dragonslayer, as well.
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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by Anonymous Proxy on Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:28 pm

    Dragon Bone Smasher: A bladeless, thick mass of iron used for smashing.

    According to the ancestors of Stonefang's excavators, it's said this weapon was created to face dragons, and is imbued with magic to protect the wielder from fire.

    Dragonslayer: Too big, too thick, too heavy, and too rough. Less of a blade and more of a heavy chunk of iron.
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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by SEANB240 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:52 pm

    Without being too spoilery, here is what I was getting at earlier:

    (Note: More than likely this falls under the 'common fantasy element' deal rather than a loose inspiration)

    Irvine
    The silent archer. Irvine has no visible eyes, however there is a glaring Apostle eye on his demonic bow. Irvine is the captain of the Archers in Griffith's [Band of the Hawk].




    Spoiler:


    Rakshas

    Exiled from the Kushan clan of Bakiraka, Rakshas is a mystery. His motivation for allying with Griffith is so he can ensure that one day he can cut off his beautiful head. Rakshas commands the demon search and destroy squad.

    An assassin character.





    Locus


    Locus, "The Moonlight Knight" is a legendary hero of Midland. His exploits are even told to children as bedtime stories. His undefeated title in jousting tournaments caused him to be so proud that he will not serve under an inferior leader. Locus volunteered to serve Griffith's Army, following an oracle, and now he is in charge of new recruits, as well as the Cavalry.




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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by Orango19 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:17 pm

    @SEANB240 feel free to unload the power of spoilers. I believe everyone is ok with it.
    It also helps me see further into the story and see more similarities or how the staff from FROM got their inspiration.


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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by Uparkaam on Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:09 pm

    I'm surprised nobody mentioned Darksign and Brand yet.


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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by Orango19 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:15 pm

    Uparkaam wrote:I'm surprised nobody mentioned Darksign and Brand yet.

    "...the Darksign brands the Undead..."
    Noticed that early this morning. I wonder how it is called in japanese. Both in the manga and the DkS.

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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by Spurgun on Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:19 pm

    They aren't very similar tough.
    Both are markings on the body that are supposedly bade things.
    The brand is basically a torchlight to all the demons near Gutts. And apparetly alarms him if there are apostles near him.
    The darksign makes you revive at a bonfire, and eventually go hollow.
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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by Orango19 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:24 pm

    Yeah, but the point is being able to see from where FROM got their inspirations.
    With so many things in common; I'm pretty sure they saw the brands and were like "hmmm cooool; I think I'll add that to our game."


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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by Spurgun on Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:27 pm

    That's a bit far-fetched IMO.
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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by Uparkaam on Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:09 am

    Also, the concept art of the darkwraiths in the PtDE art book reminds me of the Skull Knight:
    Spoiler:


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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by SEANB240 on Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:32 am

    Uparkaam wrote:Also, the concept art of the darkwraiths in the PtDE art book reminds me of the Skull Knight:
    Spoiler:

    Could you post a scan of it?
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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by Uparkaam on Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:32 am

    SEANB240 wrote:
    Uparkaam wrote:Also, the concept art of the darkwraiths in the PtDE art book reminds me of the Skull Knight:
    Spoiler:

    Could you post a scan of it?

    Sadly no. But I'll see if I can find a picture from the internet.


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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by Uparkaam on Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:50 am

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvH27okPVJM

    4:29, in the middle of the left page. Quite hard to see any details, but this was the best I could find.


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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by SEANB240 on Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:11 am

    Here is a little more connection with Artorias and Berserker Guts:




    And some interesting points and common themes I've found along the way (looking at you, Anonymous Proxy):

    Spoiler:





    In the hardcopy I have, the quote from crystal dragon dude (Grunbeld) is "What is this flame...That I, a fire dragon, cannot manipulate?"

    Tree/Flame (not normal flames!) Witch, elder of Shierke? If there is a link to Beatrice...

    That's really stretching it, but interesting nonetheless, right?


    Spoiler:






    Also, just for a little one-off while we're at it:



    In my hardcopy edition, the last quote is: "The one who shall call down upon the world an age of darkness."


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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by Uparkaam on Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:47 am

    I've noticed that Artorias' armour looks like nobody is inside it. (Just look at the legs. No one has that thin legs. And there are a lot of other holes in it too.) Seems like the Artorias we fight is an empty, corrupted set of armour with his soul, just a husk of the former Artorias. Some kind of a beast, much like Guts' berserker armour.


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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by Anonymous Proxy on Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:49 am

    Another thing to note:

    When Guts is in the armor, and if he lets the spirit of the beast take control of him. He enters that "Soul" form that Schierke has to go with him to pull him back. Pretty much we compared it as an abyssal place, and how he is losing control and lost in the hell's form.

    Artorias was taken over by the Abyss for staying within it so long.

    I'm sure you were trying to point this out, but yeah. Sitting in that darkness so long, it makes people lose their sanity/humanity.


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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by SEANB240 on Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:52 am

    Uparkaam wrote:I've noticed that Artorias' armour looks like nobody is inside it. (Just look at the legs. No one has that thin legs. And there are a lot of other holes in it too.) Seems like the Artorias we fight is an empty, corrupted set of armour with his soul, just a husk of the former Artorias. Some kind of a beast, much like Guts' berserker armour.

    Good point. It would make sense if he was reduced to his id, sort of like the humanity shades in the Chasm, to take on such a form. Thanks for the vid by the way.
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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:07 am

    interesting stuff, though i think a couple of the links are really more from the fact certain elements have archetypes for stuff like castles, iron maidens etc.

    i like griffith's prison look for duke's archives spiral prison though.


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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by SEANB240 on Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:51 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:interesting stuff, though i think a couple of the links are really more from the fact certain elements have archetypes for stuff like castles, iron maidens etc.

    i like griffith's prison look for duke's archives spiral prison though.

    Some are, for sure. Both franchises draw from a lot of the same source material, so it is hard to figure out which is that or what could have been an inspiration or nod to the manga.
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    Re: Abyss/Berserk References and Speculation (Lore)

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:38 pm

    yeah thats true, i think the artorias thing is a massive nod, and even in fact may be a hint as to what's happened to artorias after walking the abyss, not that i've played the dlc or want any spoilers of it silly

    I like the salamanders and the DBS though, they're really good spots I must say.


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