all i see is tanks

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    Tolvo
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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:17 am

    Serious_Much wrote:

    I never use Havel's ring or mask of father, though I admit to using Ring of Favor (pretty much standard on all of my builds) to be honest PvE doesnt matter too much what you wear as long as you be careful.. I do most my pleaythroughs without using havel's generally because i don't have the endurance to equip it until end game..

    I just realized, I've never actually put on Ring of Favour. I don't know how the hell I forgot about that thing.

    I remember I was once thinking over the idea of how the game would be if Weight didn't determine how fast you move, but that what you are wearing does. Full havels? You will move slowly, no matter what. Thief set, you'll be incredibly fast. I always wondered how this would be, because I feel it would balance the Light and Heavy armor better, because poise being given to light armors just doesn't make much sense to me. It's always nice to assume From and developers can just balance with the flip of a switch and are too lazy, but I'll be damned if I could ever properly balance a game.

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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by PPG-3- on Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:20 am

    i recently made a dex/end build.

    endurance is the highest stat. so im wearing really heavy armor. No need for Havels though. However I do wear ring of favor and protection and either the ninja flip ring or the bleed resistance ring. I'm really enjoying it. And I think with 50+ stat points into endurance, I think i've earned the right to move freely in heavy armor. And no one has called me a noob yet. Probably because I just dont stand around and take their hits while chomping at them with my lifehunt. that's noobish. i still play smart even though i look like a turtle. oh and i duel wield. +5 chaos balder and the lifehunt. No shield, at this point it would be serious overkill.
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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:21 am

    Tolvo wrote:
    Serious_Much wrote:

    I never use Havel's ring or mask of father, though I admit to using Ring of Favor (pretty much standard on all of my builds) to be honest PvE doesnt matter too much what you wear as long as you be careful.. I do most my pleaythroughs without using havel's generally because i don't have the endurance to equip it until end game..

    I just realized, I've never actually put on Ring of Favour. I don't know how the hell I forgot about that thing.

    I remember I was once thinking over the idea of how the game would be if Weight didn't determine how fast you move, but that what you are wearing does. Full havels? You will move slowly, no matter what. Thief set, you'll be incredibly fast. I always wondered how this would be, because I feel it would balance the Light and Heavy armor better, because poise being given to light armors just doesn't make much sense to me. It's always nice to assume From and developers can just balance with the flip of a switch and are too lazy, but I'll be damned if I could ever properly balance a game.

    It's because otherwise endurance would not be balanced, and would do almost nothing. The whole point of endurance is the fact if you want to you can pump it up high so you can be unencumbered by heavy armour, or have it slightly less and use less armour. What you're suggesting would affect balance too you know silly


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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:25 am

    Serious_Much wrote:

    It's because otherwise endurance would not be balanced, and would do almost nothing. The whole point of endurance is the fact if you want to you can pump it up high so you can be unencumbered by heavy armour, or have it slightly less and use less armour. What you're suggesting would affect balance too you know silly

    Hmm, maybe From should just make it so one build is perfect, and if everyone uses it, it is perfectly balanced because everyone is using it as well! The idea is bulletproof!
    *Goes hundreds of matches in a row with people using the same armor, weapons, spells, and rings.*
    Alright, maybe that isn't a good idea. I wonder if there is a proper balance with the armors that can be made given the game's mechanics.
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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by Akatik on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:34 am

    My tank in Full black armor rocks for PvE. I had absolutely no problem last night when I got the large ember from the Tomb of the Giants. You know the room with the 6 giant skeletons? Yeah, they barely hurt me and my GSoA rocked their faces off...again.

    I do PvP on this guy every now and then, and he is far from an optimal PvP build. But, I simply refuse to wear havels ring or any other ring that will allow me to ninja roll in my heavy armor, even though the Black Iron is the lightest heavy armor in the game. I typically wear defensive rings, the Wolf Ring and the Ring of Steel defense. If I'm going up against a pyromancer, I'll put on the flame defense ring, but the wolf ring almost never comes off. With my current set up, I have over 100 poise.


    The next guy I'm building is going to be a dex/int build with either the paladin armor or the brass set, maybe even a combination of the two. I should be able to have better mobility with this new guy.


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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by Yesuurd on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:45 am

    I am still at ng+ since I am mmostly doing pvp at the forest mainly in NG+
    Before in my first playthrough I started out at anor londo then went to the kiln, I would
    like to use light armor and use my dark wood grain spot for something else like the cloranthy ring for stamina, but no matter how good I have goten and how much experience from fighting day in and dya out in the forest, there is a huge disadvantage not only from others wearing tank armor but from the gangs, so what I use because I love the look and overall stats is all giant but the torso is black iron +5 with my bandit knife and parry dagger with miracles,hornets and darkwood grain, that's my setup to crap on gangs.Although I enjoy alot using katanas too, I wish I could dress up ninja style
    but I would not last 2 seconds and I have gone in there with many many different setups, bottom line people are all abusing the tanking and stagger weapons it's almost imposible to use light armor and I think some of the coolest armor in the game if not the coolest is light or medium.


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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by gammlesvarte on Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:11 pm

    i love the heavy armor when high endu when you can roll around whit it its fun...i made a knight just for fun when i was bored and pumped hers endu and woha i can roll around.


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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by jagger_1243 on Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:54 pm

    i think the lightweight roll is better then the dwgr flip honestly, so for my ng+5 im doing steel leggings then all thief set with hornet ring and wolf ring so i can hit heavy when i need to and still have a chance of getting out of a stunlock. also im using the bandit knife +10 with sunlightblade....

    say i just got on here yesterday. how do i properly quote ppl? i see the butten but im not sure how it works?
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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:56 pm

    Click the button, then type under the large box of text and code. If you want you can delete parts out of the quote that you don't need to make a point.


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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by jagger_1243 on Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:02 pm

    happy thanks
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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by nhbdy on Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:13 pm

    hmm... I'll have to try the "less than 25% roll" and compare it to the flip ring on my next character, I intend for him to be real light on the armor bits, so he'll be a good test for that, if it is really good, I may have a new way to make an impression on those I kill!
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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:00 pm

    justwant2play wrote:One of my pet peeves on Dark Souls pvp are all these players who wear "tank" armors in addition to the Dark Grain Ring. Flipping around in Giants Armor or Havel's. Ridiculous if you ask me.

    Agreed. The simple solution would have been if a restriction had been placed on rings: Havel's and the DWGR can't be worn together.
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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:14 pm

    if its an advantage and within my characters abilities, i use it. it seems 'being a noob' here is used to refer to 'being efficient'. i wont pretend i'm not eliteist but the hate on all things useful in this thread is rediculous. esp for good pvpers. against random idiots it may not be necessary but i cant believe how many of you turn down the best strategies and risk losing to other pvp vets because 'its overdone'. an extension of the logic here would lead me to the conclusion that my int build should wear full havels and fight exclusively with a divine shortsword wearing the old wiches ring and the cursebite ring because then i've denied myself every advantage and so am truly 'hardcore'.


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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by nhbdy on Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:17 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:if its an advantage and within my characters abilities, i use it. it seems 'being a noob' here is used to refer to 'being efficient'. i wont pretend i'm not eliteist but the hate on all things useful in this thread is rediculous. esp for good pvpers. against random idiots it may not be necessary but i cant believe how many of you turn down the best strategies and risk losing to other pvp vets because 'its overdone'. an extension of the logic here would lead me to the conclusion that my int build should wear full havels and fight exclusively with a divine shortsword wearing the old wiches ring and the cursebite ring because then i've denied myself every advantage and so am truly 'hardcore'.

    I think you misunderstand, it's not that we are denying efficiency, it's that we believe that it dilutes the skill and room for individuality to use these strategies that dominate the mechanical side of the game. If on every toon I make I simply wore full havels and walked through my opponent's attacks and scored an easy BS, I would win a lot more of the matches I enter, but I would also enjoy them a lot less, as it takes very little skill to execute that battle plan, there is no variety, no customization, and more importantly, no challenge.
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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by moomootv on Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:35 pm

    I think that heavy gear should get the best stats out of all the gears but your movement is not the best(no fliping tanks) and that light and med gear sould get buffs such as +stam or +health or +spell power and light gear should have some poise not just straight 0 give them atleast 5-10 but thats just my 2cents.


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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:37 pm

    but if everyone is doing it then they'll get really good at both doing it and not letting you which will make things much more difficult and require much more skill. imo you shouldn't have to hobble yourself to make things hard/fun simply punish inefficiency untill people wise up and discover something that works. you dumbing down your tactics harms both the metagame and pvp scene which harms your skill level as well. elevate your game and the pvp scene will follow or die horribly on your estoc untill it does.


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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:39 pm

    nhbdy wrote: If on every toon I make I simply wore full havels and walked through my opponent's attacks and scored an easy BS, I would win a lot more of the matches I enter, but I would also enjoy them a lot less, as it takes very little skill to execute that battle plan, there is no variety, no customization, and more importantly, no challenge.

    Well said. I'll never understand the mentality of people who will just do the same thing over, and over, and over simply because it gets easy wins. Why do they even play games? What point is there in playing something that doesn't compel you to elevate your play in order to succeed.
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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by nhbdy on Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:42 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:but if everyone is doing it then they'll get really good at both doing it and not letting you which will make things much more difficult and require much more skill. imo you shouldn't have to hobble yourself to make things hard/fun simply punish inefficiency untill people wise up and discover something that works. you dumbing down your tactics harms both the metagame and pvp scene which harms your skill level as well. elevate your game and the pvp scene will follow or die horribly on your estoc untill it does.

    It's simply a difference in philosophy, you seem to think that everyone using the same loadout and same style of tactics is enjoyable, some people would agree with that, I and many others do not, and feel differently. So instead of submitting to the tactic, we ignore it, and find ways to beat it without using it. I'm not here to tell you how to play your game, and I won't allow others to tell me how to play mine, I personally find that a setup that allows full mobility and immunity to the stunning effect of heavy blows to be cheap and unrewarding, regardless of who else is using it.
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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:43 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:but if everyone is doing it then they'll get really good at both doing it and not letting you which will make things much more difficult and require much more skill. imo you shouldn't have to hobble yourself to make things hard/fun simply punish inefficiency untill people wise up and discover something that works. you dumbing down your tactics harms both the metagame and pvp scene which harms your skill level as well. elevate your game and the pvp scene will follow or die horribly on your estoc untill it does.
    again i say


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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:43 pm

    sry not you


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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by nhbdy on Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:44 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:
    Forum Pirate wrote:but if everyone is doing it then they'll get really good at both doing it and not letting you which will make things much more difficult and require much more skill. imo you shouldn't have to hobble yourself to make things hard/fun simply punish inefficiency untill people wise up and discover something that works. you dumbing down your tactics harms both the metagame and pvp scene which harms your skill level as well. elevate your game and the pvp scene will follow or die horribly on your estoc untill it does.
    again i say

    I'm failing to understand the logic here, saying it again does not make it right...
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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:10 pm

    the argument that was made was that winning without that strategy is elevating your game, thats wrong, knowing all of the subtle nuances of that strategy and discovering better strategies are elevating your game. if someone really knows what their doing NOT wearing heavy armor could lose you the match even if your better. as a training exercise hobbleing youself and sparring is fine but if you intend to improve, mastering that playstyle is essential because its so effective/common and that means using it, alot, against many strategies and if you guys were doing this it wouldnt be a 'walk through swing and bs' fest because it would be much easier to defend against and punish. it would be, as real fights are, 40%headgames,30%skill, 25%instinct/reaction time and 5%luck. i dont have many, but those are the best fights. my argument, is that if 'everyone' did it then better strategies would develop, more subtlty and skill would be required and you couldn't simply tank a swing and bs everyone you'd be murderd trying


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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by Rin on Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:12 pm

    wtf i dont realy understand the reputations sysem but i got a -rep for posting a negative vote after posting my feelings bout heave armour users why?? the name of this topic is 'all i see is tanks' so how is posting my feelings bout tanks a negative vote realy ?? iv got a right to dislike the overuse of heavy armour


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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:36 pm

    I kind of view it like if in a game with classes(Strict classes, not like in Dark Souls), where one class is obviously better than all of the others. If you want to PvP, you have to play that class to do truly well. But, it has a play style not everyone agrees with. Shouldn't it be made that the other classes have an equal footing than them, what's the point of these other classes being in the game if they're a downgrade anyway? I will always play what feels right and fun in my hands, over what is of the Maximum efficiency. Because I want to enjoy the game. I want to play and have fun, I'm not just going for kills. To me, that's incredibly dull and boring.
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    Re: all i see is tanks

    Post by Rin on Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:01 pm

    the thing is in most rpgs tanks hv more defence but are much slower but havels ring mask of father and the extra end from ring of fav n protection make tanks as fast as light armour users... there was a dude on the old form that said its ok to ninja flip in gaints coz y w8st 1 ring space for de flip ring itself that could be used for better rings which is totaly stupid dont know his name but he used a char from bleach as his avatar


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