Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed5515

    Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

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    Montante
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    Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by Montante on Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:14 pm

    Hello.

    I've decided to remake my current sorcerer for aesthetic reasons, but before I delete her I will spend all of her souls to bump her dexterity up from base 11 to 45. While I do this I will also record a casting of every single available sorcery at both dex levels, which I'll then merge together so that the two dex levels are shown side by side.

    I will have this done sometime this week. I just felt so excited about finally being able to answer my own many questions that I wanted to create this thread in advance. happy

    If you have any comments or recommendations about this I'm all ears.

    Edit: All right, here we go with some numbers!

    Note: Different types of spells use different spell animations. I couldn't time them all against each other, so the frame numbers shown here might not show the true relationship between different types of spells (Magic Shield vs Magic Weapon, for example). The frame numbers are only intended to show the difference in cast rate for a spell in comparison with itself at different Dex levels.

    Praise Master Logan!



    Offensive spells

    Fast cast
    Dex 11: 244 frames
    Dex 20: 244 frames
    Dex 30: 244 frames
    Dex 40: 244 frames
    Dex 45: 220 frames
    Spells: Soul Arrow, Great Soul Arrow, Soul Spear, Crystal Soul Spear, Homing Soulmass, Homing Crystal Soulmass, Dark Bead.
    Effect: Roughly 9% faster cast rate between Dex 45 and Dex 11.

    Slow cast
    Dex 11: 384 frames
    Dex 20: 384 frames
    Dex 30: 368 frames
    Dex 40: 324 frames
    Dex 45: 300 frames
    Spells: Heavy Soul Arrow, Great Heavy Soul Arrow, White Dragon Breath, Dark Orb, Dark Fog, Pursuers.
    Effect: Roughly 22% faster cast rate between Dex 45 and Dex 11.

    Buffs

    Weapon
    Dex 11: 400 frames
    Dex 20: 400 frames
    Dex 30: 400 frames
    Dex 40: 400 frames
    Dex 45: 400 frames
    Spells: Magic Weapon, Great Magic Weapon, Crystal Magic Weapon, Hidden Weapon.
    Effect: None.

    Shield
    Dex 11: 456 frames
    Dex 20: 456 frames
    Dex 30: 456 frames
    Dex 40: 456 frames
    Dex 45: 456 frames
    Spells: Magic Shield, Strong Magic Shield.
    Effect: None.

    Support

    Chameleon (separate due to special casting animation)
    Dex 11: 132 frames
    Dex 20: 132 frames
    Dex 30: 132 frames
    Dex 40: 132 frames
    Dex 45: 132 frames
    Spell: Chameleon (durr).
    Effect: None.

    Aural Decoy (separate due to faster cast rate than the other spells)
    Dex 11: 244 frames
    Dex 20: 244 frames
    Dex 30: 244 frames
    Dex 40: 244 frames
    Dex 45: 220 frames
    Spell: Aural Decoy.
    Effect: A 9% increase in cast rate between Dex 45 and Dex 11. Interestingly, the only non-offensive spell that receives a benefit from dexterity.

    Cast Light (separate due to slower cast rate than the other spells)
    Dex 11: 360 frames
    Dex 20: 360 frames
    Dex 30: 360 frames
    Dex 40: 360 frames
    Dex 45: 360 frames
    Spell: Cast Light.
    Effect: None.

    Standard cast (i.e. the rest)
    Dex 11: 356 frames
    Dex 20: 356 frames
    Dex 30: 356 frames
    Dex 40: 356 frames
    Dex 45: 356 frames
    Spells: Hush, Fall Control, Remedy, Resist Curse, Hidden Body, Repair.
    Effect: None.


    Last edited by Montante on Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:09 am; edited 3 times in total

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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by Pesth on Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:41 pm

    Dont test it every SL, you do it in 5 SL's you will have a nice idea of the cast speed increase

    SL 20-25-30-35-40-45


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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by Montante on Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:46 pm

    The plan was actually to record only at dex 11 and dex 45, but something inbetween might be useful as well. A 5-level increase will take longer time to produce but it will indeed be quite comprehensive at the end of it. Thanks for the idea.

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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by Pesth on Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:47 pm

    and do of just some sorceries, and if 5-5 sl's will be too much work try 15-15
    15-30-45 we can have a idea big grin


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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by Montante on Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:51 pm

    Increments of 10 sounds like a good tradeoff to me. 11 - 20 - 30 - 40 - 45

    I'm determined to try every single spell there is. I don't want to risk missing anything that might be hidden somewhere in the code. happy

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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by callipygias on Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:03 pm

    Like many others this is something I've been meaning to do but never gotten around to. I'm thinking the difference on the strong spells (HCSM, CSS) is little to nothing. Looking forward to your results. Somebody +1 the op, please. Spent mine today.


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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:12 pm

    callipygias wrote:Somebody +1 the op, please. Spent mine today.

    Done.


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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by dualcross on Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:30 pm

    thanks op for doing this, could you check out the new sorceries as well? =] i.e. dark orb

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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by Montante on Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:05 pm

    dualcross wrote:thanks op for doing this, could you check out the new sorceries as well? =] i.e. dark orb

    Yep, every single sorcery in the game will be included.

    I have some preliminary results. I extracted these by counting the frames of the entire casting animation with vDub, in other words the time from when your character raises his or her catalyst to when it is lowered back down to a mobile position again.

    I'm not sure how to translate from frames into seconds, or if that is actually necessary. Anyway, here's some early data. It seems to me that spells are grouped into two categories: those with faster cast and those with slower. I'm seeing a pattern emerging, but I'll hold conclusions until I've looked through more spells.

    Soul Arrow & Dark Bead

    Dex 11: 244 frames
    Dex 20: 244 frames
    Dex 30: 244 frames
    Dex 40: 244 frames
    Dex 45: 220 frames

    Dark Orb & White Dragon Breath

    Dex 11: 384 frames
    Dex 20: 384 frames
    Dex 30: 368 frames
    Dex 40: 324 frames
    Dex 45: 300 frames

    If my math isn't entirely off (which it might be), the slower spells enjoy a roughly 20% decreased casting time, while the faster spells get only a smaller ~9% improvement. This was expected, really.

    I'll continue like this with the rest of the spells later on. A comparison video can come later, I feel. Numbers tell their own story, and they're easier to produce. happy

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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:28 am

    Amazing, 5 more points into Dex actually lowered 24 frames for WDB, as much as +30 Dex points lowered 24 frames for SA. I know CSS doesn't get a good increase in casting speed, but I'm willing to hear more.


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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:31 am

    Also can you post these results on the PvP section? Could you do the same with pyros and miracles?


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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:42 am

    I have a couple of miracles for you.

    Lightning Spear
    Emit Force
    Heal
    Gravelord Sword Dance
    WoG

    These should cover all miracles types.

    Pyros:

    Fireball
    Firestorm
    Fire Whip
    Combustion

    These should cover all the pyro types, we already know Dex doesn't affect the mists.

    Sorcery:

    Soul Spear or CSS
    Homing Soul Mass
    Great Heavy Soul Arrow
    Chameleon


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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by Montante on Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:01 am

    I won't be able to do the miracles since my Faith is too low, sorry. I could do the pyromancies too, although that would have to wait until I get my new character running since my current one is at 45 dex. I'm not sure if I'll invest the points into dex on my new character, but atleast then I'll still be able to compare 11 dex on her with 45 dex on the old character for the pyromancies.

    I'll post this in the PvP section too, once I'm done with extracting all of the numbers. I'll get working on it some more right now. happy

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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:04 am

    Awesome, I think WoG is like Soul Arrow, very low casting speed increase, while Lightning Spears get a huge boost. I have a character with 45 Dex that throws Lightning Spears super fast. I also think Heal-type miracles and Gravelord Dance doesn't get an increase in casting speed.


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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by Montante on Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:08 am

    Since you sound so positive, just to be sure: I *won't* be able to do the miracles. star

    You might be right in your assumptions, though. I'll soon get to the sorcery buffs to see if they change in any way at all. That would give an idea if Heal or anything else like that will benefit.

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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:31 am

    Yeah do it when you can, no rush. I don't think buffing will be affected either, but the praying (Heal) animation amd the buff animation are different so who knows.


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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by Montante on Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:08 am

    I've updated the first post with a comprehensive list of spells and the effect of dexterity on them. It took a while, but I'm glad I did it. happy

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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:17 am

    Amazing work. I always knew CSS was fast enough. There's my proof. Thank you so much!!!!!!


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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by Montante on Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:53 am

    Are we absolutely sure that the cast bonuses end at Dex 45, by the way? I could bump myself up to Dex 50 pretty quickly and test those out, too.

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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:55 am

    Please!!!!!


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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by LordRevan on Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:56 am

    This one proves it for Pyromancy at least. Dunno about Sorcery.
    At 40 seconds.



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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by Montante on Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:21 am

    I will pick one representative spell from each offensive category and document the cast rate during the Dex levels 46, 47, 48, 49 & 50. I hope to make some new discoveries. happy

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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by Montante on Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:38 am

    No luck. It appears that the casting speed increase ends after 45, just like with pyromancy.

    Edit: I made tests with Crystal Soul Spear, White Dragon Breath and Pursuers.

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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:56 am

    Hey I was wondering if you are ready for the pyro tests. Looking forward to it.


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    Re: Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    Post by Montante on Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:03 am

    I'm getting ready to bump my new character up from base dex to 45, but it'll cost me a bunch of souls to get my hands on all the pyro spells.

    I'm working on it, though. happy

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