[spoilers] hyper armor

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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:55 pm

    We could buff with shield, ditch it, and fight. Do you need the 50 Str for the buff?


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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by RANT on Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:00 pm

    no, enought to two hand it and just swap to your weapon.


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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:01 pm

    Awesome, but that buff is too short right...


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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by RANT on Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:02 pm

    i think its either 30 or 60. im gonna test it right now


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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:04 pm

    That could be our only hope. *dramatic music*


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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by RANT on Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:10 pm

    30 secs and the man serpents gs were bouncing off me, does it do that for pvp?


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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:13 pm

    Damn 30 secs is so short....could be useful for poise stab or a rush for stunlock.


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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:19 pm

    damn, well there goes that. It looks like its wolfs ring or bust, even then you're probably screwed if you're using anything heavier than the great club. We're really getting the cold shoulder here.

    As Rant said, because Iron flesh makes you so slow, it won't help at all, they'll just wait you out or destroy you with casting. Even your own casting wouldn't help, its all way to easy to dodge.


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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:12 pm

    You take a lot less dmg, and weapons bounce off you. Idk, i think you guys will see that using str wont be impossible. Remeber the hitboxes for backstabs are smaller also. I agree str weapons did kind of get screwed but you guys can pull it off. I know you guys will at least be able to make UGS builds or Great Axe builds, but yea the weapons above say 16lbs are going to be hard to use.

    http://tinyurl.com/9c4poon I know you guys can make your own builds fine, but idk i dont think str weapons are dead. In fact since a lot of people wont have 99 humanity anymore that high dmg will be even better. Plus! lets not forget that the medium roll is faster, that really is a big difference. I have seen quite a few people on streams do well with medium roll. The faster roll, and backstab hit box being harded to land. You guys can do it !


    What im confused about, is people are saying greatswords don't stunlock like they used to but falchions seem to. I think once some more testing is done by the Vets who really know what to look for we will see that it isn't as bad as it might seem.


    I have also heard a lot of people suggest they will be using 31 or 53 poise instead of 76 since the dwgr was nerfed. So we really need to see some tests with how stunlocks have changed.
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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:22 pm

    We can, but thats because we're awesome. If I'm really determined to win, I use spears and katanas now, because they are flat out better weapons. It sucks that the dex superiority is only being furthered by the low weight of their weapons compared to ours.

    Spears are taking a hit, but as str weapons are generally (at least in my opinion/experience) better in both hands due to the increased speed and shorter recovery, the deflection probably won't do us as much good as it could have.

    The clubs will survive, poise isn't a big issue for the roll r1 spamming they do, but I don't see any other ug weapons making it through, unless the elemental zweihander/great axe survive the nerfs.


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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:34 pm

    http://tinyurl.com/8d7hcu2 Like a boss 8)

    From what i understand, weapon scaling has been buffed. Maybe Str got an extra bonus, we really got to see more tests.
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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:36 pm

    I could medium roll for UGS, +53 poise. For great hammers I don't need high poise as Forum said. Greataxes will be difficult, cause their roll R1s depend on fast roll and their stunlocking depend on high poise.


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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by petals18 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:43 pm

    Sounds like this dlc is causing quite the cufuffle, someone underline the big changes please for me? Im not planning on getting it but Ill be affected by others who have it I guess. I was just starting to get into the swing of pvp, hope its not *** already. . . . .
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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:44 pm

    You guys need to practice fat rolling in duels more often I think. silly
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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:47 pm

    thats so weak its not even funny. The msgs is stronger. The regular zweih is only good at 40/40 and the regular greataxe is still better elemental than it is at 40/40.

    As for the ugs mid roll, at leat as is, any fool with a spear (sometimes a bow) kills me. There's just nothing that I can do. If I can fast roll I can win, but the only solutions I've fount to catching a fast rolling spear user while mid rolling with a ugs are twop, or a spear of my own. If I have my own spear though, using the ugs is rather pointless.

    It could just be me, but if i'm mid rolling, any spear is a death sentance.


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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by petals18 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:49 pm

    Whats happening? Has the DWGR been nerfed or something?
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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:57 pm

    Not yet, its being dropped to 25%, and atm we're discussing how that kinda screws ultra great swords, great hammers and great axes out of the mobility and or poise they need to function. Hyper armor would have helped tremendously, but it turns out that the rumors were wrong.


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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:59 pm

    Spears are a threat to EVERY build, besides players like spears as you said. Also, a UGS that does 530+ dmg2h (that is before the scaling buff from the patch,so more then that) with the added dmg of DMB or SLB, is FAR from weak. I will admit that same build with the large club would be MUCH better, but i'm at least trying to think of ways to be creative with str builds. We obviously still need a lot more info on the changes to accurately judge all this. STR builds were already challenging, unless all you did was crit shots by parrying or backstabs. So really not much has changed, i completely understand why you guys are upset. I do wish they spent more time on the next game, rather then doing this. Not much we can do i guess.
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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:01 pm

    Forum, 62 poise helps against spears. Tank their roll R1, they'll do another R1 (usually), boom stunlock/poisestab. With that high poise you'll have to med roll though. OR go crazy 93 poise to tank 3 hits.


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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:03 pm

    ^ thats why i feel like being a full blown fat rolling tank might be viable. Especially if the whole greatswords not stunlocking anymore is true, i still don't completely understand that. Was the poise break changed?

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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by petals18 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:08 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:Not yet, its being dropped to 25%, and atm we're discussing how that kinda screws ultra great swords, great hammers and great axes out of the mobility and or poise they need to function. Hyper armor would have helped tremendously, but it turns out that the rumors were wrong.

    Whoa, you mean youll have get under 25% equip burden to fast roll, even with the DWGR? Thats whats coming in the next patch? If it is. . . . . . fudge.
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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:09 pm

    YES!!!!


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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:11 pm

    FruitPunchNinja wrote:^ thats why i feel like being a full blown fat rolling tank might be viable. Especially if the whole greatswords not stunlocking anymore is true, i still don't completely understand that. Was the poise break changed?

    No it's still the same (I think) but now you can roll out after the 2nd or 3rd hit. Needs confirmation though.


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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by petals18 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:13 pm

    Jesus, I'll have to start another build ffs, I really wanted to pvp with this one for awhile, settle in so to speak, stop running around like a madman. This is depressing.
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    Re: [spoilers] hyper armor

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:24 pm

    Building them may not have changed much, but using them has. Its not that spears are a threat to me while I'm mid rolling with a ugs, its that i've fought over 100 of them mid rolling with my dgm and only beaten 3.

    Other weapons are fast enough to pressure them into a mistake, even with a mid roll, ugs are not.

    As for damage, I'll do direct comparisons for you.

    http://tinyurl.com/8ebxawe

    http://tinyurl.com/9khxp6c

    Thats the type of differences we're talking about. A ug weapon with 500 ar is completely worthless, but the weapons that actually hurt will be to heavy to use (excluding the large and great clubs) without sacrificing the speed and poise necessary to make the weapon work in the first place.

    You say far from weak, but you also say you don't do str weapons much. Trust me, with ug weapons, anything under 600 ar is just sad. The man serpent greatsword hits as hard as the zweihander you call "far from weak."

    There's just no war around it, heavy weapons are getting screwed. You can argue that it can still be done all you like, but its getting harder, and its harder than using light weapons are already. We're being denied the things we must have to work, while little changes for dex weapons.


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