Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

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    Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by Knight Alundil on Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:05 pm

    Ok hi. Im a backstabber. I use hornets ring and make alot of my build around being able to surprise the enemy with many different attacks (Avelyn, pyro, kicks, ripostes etc) but something I do regularely is backstab.

    I want to clarify that I do not fish, but if someone strafes at a diagonal angle towards me Im going to do the same and if your back pops up in my face, yes, I am going to backstab you.

    I have received a ridiculous amount of hatemails in my time in Dark souls, everything ranging from the nicer "You should riposte more mate, people would be less irritated with that" to the "You are what is wrong with this community, ***".

    Now why am I whats wrong with the community? I CHOOSE to use a game mechanic that they CHOOSE not to use. Afterwards they send me hatemail; which is sometime absolutely disgusting, yet I am the problem with the community.

    I dont think so. In every single game that has ever been created to have an online multiplayer competitive component there are OP abilities and weapons. Would you go into Call of duty, select a pistol and smoke grenades and send hatemail to anyone who snipes, nades or sprays you with an automatic? I think not.

    There are plenty of abilities and techniques in dark souls which I would say are OP and unfair and yes sometimes I do really rage when I lose a fight to these individuals BUT I would never stoop so low as to hatemail someone. This is the problem with the community.

    What builds a strong community? Core players who are willing to let things wash off their back and not upset them to the extent that they harass others. Players who are willing to just accept that other people will play the game the way they want and to find the individuals who share your views and play with them to get the most enjoyment.

    A community is not a large amount of people who feel the exact same way about everything. A community contains many different people with many different views who are all bouncing off each other creating interesting scenarios.

    If everyone played by the "No backstab" bullpoo rule then how long would it be before other things began to be considered "OP"?

    That is the jist of my rant. Below is a SPOILER related to the PC VERSION of the game, and i'm afraid I do not know how to make the spoiler box so do not continue to read this post if you wish to avoid spoilers. Thanks.









    Spoiler:
    When i've been playing on consoles, I never got hatemailed for backstabbing; only backstabbing with Hornets on. Now that i've went to PC and the hornets is nerfed im just getting hatemail for backstabbing all together. This has shown me that the problem was never getting hornet stabbed, it was getting beaten. Now that the hornets ring is nerfed I dont even use it, swapped it out for a wolfs ring for beastly poise, so it's fair to say that my backstab is just as powerful as theirs, yet they CHOOSE not to do it so I have to put up with their abuse. Funny that.


    Last edited by Knight Alundil on Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by LordRevan on Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:11 pm

    [spoiler]*Insert your spoiler text here*[/spoiler]

    Also if you are including spoilers in your post ( As you are ). Please include [Spoilers] in the title of your thread.

    Thank You, and have a pleasant day.


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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by Knight Alundil on Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:16 pm

    LordRevan wrote:
    Spoiler:
    *Insert your spoiler text here*

    Also if you are including spoilers in your post ( As you are ). Please include [Spoilers] in the title of your thread.

    Thank You, and have a pleasant day.

    Aha, thankyou very much happy

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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by Anonymous Proxy on Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:37 pm

    The Backstab complaining is about as equal to the Super Bounce and Rocket Sword tricks in Halo 2.

    GAME MECHANICS, BRO. DEAL WITH THEM.


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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by Frank Poole on Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:45 pm

    I think people have a problem with it because it's so easy to exploit, mainly because of lag. Then again, unless you're playing someone on the exact opposite side of the world who has a super connection, it's quite easy to avoid.

    I'm actually on the fence with this. In most duels with friends, we tend to avoid BS. During random duels/invasions, however, I will BS at any given opportunity. I find fights with all pretenses dropped the most exhilarating, especially if you're both well versed in all of the mechanics of the game.

    One thing's for sure, roll bs's are insanely OP.


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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by Knight Alundil on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:49 pm

    Frank Poole wrote:I think people have a problem with it because it's so easy to exploit, mainly because of lag. Then again, unless you're playing someone on the exact opposite side of the world who has a super connection, it's quite easy to avoid.

    Yes but its only the person on the receiving end who sees the "Lag" part of the lagstab. I "lagstab" people all the time apparently but it only ever looks like a normal backstab to me.

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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by X-government-agent on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:54 pm

    in all honestly I would never hate mail some for back stabbing me but I choose personally not to do cas well it's kinda
    Boring ending a fight with one hit, don't see the point but I see why people do it tho just not for me
    Personally


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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by StarScarJenova on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:59 pm

    Im on the fence about it too, but only because it seems like a tool for someone who can't win otherwise. Clearly not always the case, but there are countless times where I'll get into a duel in burg and for all intents and purposes it seems like its going to be an "honor match", or at least what this community generalizes as an honor match, and based on general skill I tend to come out on top, but once they're at about 25% or below...the backstab comes. I don't get upset, its a thing I tend to laugh about because its the fail safe of the weak and they should have their crutch otherwise the community would be much, MUCH smaller. I GG them and go about my way cause its all about both parties having fun. I have fun with my play style and they do with theirs and thats whats important. big grin


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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:02 pm

    I'm with you 100% op. (well, 98%, I wouldn't call many things op) I get hate mail for all kinds of things, including mid rolling on one ocassion, and parrying (not parry spamming, but a sucessful blind parry, 1st try) on a few others.

    Love punching the sword in reach, then killing them while the stand there trying to figure out what just happened.

    As for being a crutch, if you let it happen, its you're fualt. I'll not try the whole match just so they drop their guard so I can kill them with it, same as I do with parry attempts or high powered spells. Its a psychological tool, and a very effective one at that.


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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by StarScarJenova on Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:05 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:I'm with you 100% op. (well, 98%, I wouldn't call many things op) I get hate mail for all kinds of things, including mid rolling on one ocassion, and parrying (not parry spamming, but a sucessful blind parry, 1st try) on a few others.

    Love punching the sword in reach, then killing them while the stand there trying to figure out what just happened.

    As for being a crutch, if you let it happen, its you're fualt. I'll not try the whole match just so they drop their guard so I can kill them with it, same as I do with parry attempts or high powered spells. Its a psychological tool, and a very effective one at that.



    By definition its a crutch when used the way I described, but I did say it wasnt always the case. If I see someone come at me with a high crit weapon I'm going to expect the BS or parry and rightfully so, their weapon is made for the technique.


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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:09 pm

    Thats not really a crutch though. Its trying a technique that could turn the fight around. A good parry would do the same thing, as would fire tempest.

    Thats not a crutch, thats fighting smart. Somewhat predictably maybe, but smart none the less.


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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by StarScarJenova on Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:12 pm

    What would you describe as a crutch?


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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:18 pm

    Either nothing, or everything.

    One or the other. Either everything is a substitute for skill, because it could be done without, or nothing is a substitute for skill, because properly utilising the avalible options is a skill.

    There might be an easiest way, but recognising it, through discovery or recommendation, is also a skill.


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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:33 pm

    I got no beef with the HR, or any ring/gear/equipment/spell for that matter. If someone uses the Hornet ring, more power to 'em. That's one ring slot they don't have for FaP/DWGR/Wolf/Leo/BDCR/Firstborn/and a bunch of other equally good rings.


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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by StarScarJenova on Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:34 pm

    Well check this, everyone could go around backstabbing, its the most effective way of doing damage. Ive faced individuals that only backstab. It sucks, but its how they like to play.

    There are other individuals that choose to run into a fight not relying on this tried and true mechanic. Why? Its what most do, the flipping heavys that walk through any and all your attacks to backstab. I mean, is that not THE EASIEST way to win? If its fun for them then its fun for them. Its not fun for me to run in and just backstab. I love to see how my dodging is effective vs given situation or how this weapon provides enough range? How about implementing some auxiliary effect? Will poison be effective? How about a hit and run tactic for bleed? I have a pyromancer that mains a chaos knife, never backstab though even though its the most effective form of damage! So lets see...

    No effort vs effort? I choose effort, call me crazy or stupid, but I'd rather work for my wins.

    Urban Dictionary:

    3. A crutch is a figure of speech that describes something that is used as a surrogate or substitute for a more ideal solution or approach, as in the use of medical crutches as an assistance device for walking. The term also implies a degree of habitual laziness.

    "A debugger is a crutch for programmers too lazy to add proper logging to their applications."

    "Using pre-made pancake mix instead of making it from scratch is a crutch."

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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:59 pm

    Its not like using premade pancake mix though. Its being smart enough to keep a combat knife on you.

    Backstabbing is generally super easy to avoid. Thats its so easy to prevent would mean that, unless someone drops their guard, its actually very difficult to do. That would mean that doing so takes MORE effort than fighting another way, and that is the exact opposite of laziness.

    Neither is a backstab a less than ideal way for me to win. If You let it work, I'm very glad it did.

    Based on your definition, everything is a crutch, because you could be beating decked out sl 713 players with a sl1 naked guy and your bare fists.


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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by StarScarJenova on Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:09 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:

    Based on your definition, everything is a crutch, because you could be beating decked out sl 713 players with a sl1 naked guy and your bare fists.

    Im not sure how that's ideal, but I would TOTALLY try that, lol! big grin


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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by SunlightCrusader on Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:10 pm

    I just wish the box for backstabs was a little narrower so that the lag between games (when I forget to account for it) didn't throw me off enough to allow an easily avoidable bs to land. BS's are fair game however and I see no more problem with them than buffing. BS fishing annoys me however as it results in a boring dance followed by me countering it in some way or my opponent doing something unexpected and landing it. Thats just not fun. To be honest though I feel the pain of those who get hatemail for BS's as I get hatemail for my DMB sometimes or just being a DM in general. It's part of the game in both cases. Being upset about ganking, glitching, or hacking is one thing as all those things just aren't fair but mechanics such as BSing and buffing are simply tactics to be used and each has advantages and disadvantages. But I ramble and I think I have expressed my opinion.


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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by Knight Alundil on Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:20 pm

    There's also ranged weapons. I try to think of dark souls as a kind of Rock, Paper, Scissors fiasco.

    Someone runs at you with high crit wep keep your distance and wait for them to make a mistake.

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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:26 pm

    Oh, but if you're not facing the absolutley highest possible odds of death, then you're being lazy and using sls and gear as a crutch.

    I'm not saying I believe that, only taking your logic to its ultimate conclusion.

    If what you want is a "fair" fight, the prearrange them with rules.


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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:53 pm

    I'm at the point now where everything is permissable, even in duels. Anything your build can do by the decided level cap--if there is one--is fair game. When you start limiting what people can and can't do, you're just narrowing gameplay. Ultimately, you're not really playing the whole game. And when you run into that mug who just doesn't give a **** about your "rules", it'll be that much harder for you to deal with.


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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by CaptanSpudsy on Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:58 pm

    I only use the Hornet Ring during Forest Battles, and since I usually start invading people around 50-70, my gear and weapons are ****. So I compensate for that by using the Hornet Ring, (usually takes of 300-400 a BS) so I can actually kill people earlier.


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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:00 pm

    Sorry but the HR is extremely OP. Even if BS are avoidable, lag is b!tch and can OHKO if you don't have +1500 HP. I only use it for killing gankers, but other than that I don't dare use it in a duel. Way to OP in my opinion and I'm glad it's getting nerfed.


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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:05 pm

    I can kill you in 1 hit without the hornets ring too, don't even have to bs. I can go through 1500 hp while bsing you without the hornet ring as well, really not hard to do. Buffed dgm without the hornets ring will bs for 1500, on the low end. Thats not even a specialised build


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    Re: Confessions of a backstabber [spoilers]

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:12 pm

    My faith build has a katana ar of over 900 and my wraths hit for 700-1000+ damage. Hornet+rapier/str weapon isn't the only setup that puts out massive damage.


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