Elemental or +15?

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    Fotitudo
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    Elemental or +15?

    Post by Fotitudo on Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:24 pm

    So my question isn´t like:
    "Should i use a lightning/chaos claymore or a +15?"

    My question is! Which weapons benefit from the elemental path, more than the +15?
    I often see a chaos/lightning shotel, because the scaling ins´t so good. Elemental > +15
    Avelyn doesn´t have any scaling so: Elemental > +15
    So are there any other weapons? Which benefit more from the elemental path?
    As an example. My great scythe +15 (45 dex) does more damage on a crit, than my bandits knife +14 (on a riposte ~100 difference).
    And i only use it for bleed or backstab/riposte, should i make it +5 chaos? Is my bs damage higher?
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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by ICEFANG on Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:26 pm

    Generally weapons with high base damage are ok for elemental weapons. Weapons without scaling or low scaling, usually have an advantage being elemental. Really depends on the stats though.

    People think, that backstabs ignore armor, or most armor or something like that, so in theory, a Chaos weapon, with the most AR has the most BS power.


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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by RANT on Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:27 pm

    elemental is better for crits, for a fight always go with +15 if you have high dex or str.


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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by LordRevan on Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:34 pm

    Completely depends on your stats.

    But.
    If you can Buff go +15, if you can't... well go +15 anyway for the style points of using fire resin 8)


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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by Fotitudo on Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:47 pm

    ICEFANG wrote:
    People think, that backstabs ignore armor, or most armor or something like that, so in theory, a Chaos weapon, with the most AR has the most BS power.

    So even the bandits knife has an A scaling, chaos would be better. I only need it for the bleed effect and critical hits.
    And with 45 dex i always go for +15 winking

    have you guys good examples for elemental weapons? i only know shotel and avelyn.
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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by ICEFANG on Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:00 pm

    I used to use Halberd type weapons, they have low requirements overall, and the high base damage makes them somewhat useful for PvP even at 120.


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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:57 pm

    I have tested Avelyn against 2 different opponents and on one the lightning won while on the other the normal won. Completely depends on the defense of your opponent. I would usually choose lightning because I love lightning bolts.


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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:48 pm

    Elemental isn't better for crits, its been tested. It can be, but its not an absolute state.

    Crits multiply ar, defense is still factored. This means that as the ar gets close (how close depends on the weapon) +15 does the same or more crit damage than elemental.


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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:49 pm

    At 40 dex/str, a +15 will outdamage an elemental. Even though the AR is higher with an elemental, it goes through 2 damage reductions and the end result is lower damage.


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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by LordRevan on Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:53 pm

    reim0027 wrote:At 40 dex/str, a +15 will outdamage an elemental. Even though the AR is higher with an elemental, it goes through 2 damage reductions and the end result is lower damage.

    Assuming average or above scaling though?

    I'd think that an Elemental would best an E/D or such even at 40/40. Haven't checked though.


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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:58 pm

    I tested 18 weapons(+15 and all elementals of each), in almost all the classes - most of the popular PvP weapons with my 40/40 against 4 different armor sets and +15. +15 beat elemental hands down.


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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:03 pm

    As I said, it depends on the weapon, but according to rynn (haven't tested rapiers myself) at 12 str and 53 dex, the regular rapier will out crit a lightning.

    \The crystal dgm at 688 will out crit the lightning zweihander at 721, that I have tested. If I remember the large club at 615 will out crit the lightning large club at 655 as well. This is just at 40 str btw.


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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by LordRevan on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:03 pm

    reim0027 wrote:I tested 18 weapons(+15 and all elementals of each), in almost all the classes - most of the popular PvP weapons with my 40/40 against 4 different armor sets and +15. +15 beat elemental hands down.

    Okay then, I prefer that big grin

    Good to know.


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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:28 pm

    I have a spreadsheet of my data, if you're interested. Even with BS, +15 beat elementals, with a few exceptions.


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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by LordRevan on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:34 pm

    Yeah that's be interesting to look at if you don't mind uploading it.


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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:41 pm



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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by LordRevan on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:43 pm

    Awesome thank you happy



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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by Fotitudo on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:47 pm

    So clearly my bandits knife at +15 will outdamage a chaos bandits knife with a backstab?
    I thought wow bandits knife is so awesome with riposte´s and stuff, but my great scythe does more damage :/

    And which weapons are good for the crystal path? Composite bow?
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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:49 pm

    Yeah, I had a few surprises as well. Look at the GC's crit.


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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by LordRevan on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:50 pm

    Ummm Bandits Knife does more than Great Scythe, where are you reading that from?


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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by Fotitudo on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:53 pm

    LordRevan wrote:Ummm Bandits Knife does more than Great Scythe, where are you reading that from?
    maybe just a bit i have my knife at +14 and my scythe at +15, and my scythe does with hornet ring to a kiln black knight riposte exactly 1337 damage. (i know its a sighn! big grin) and my knife does around 1088, i think. I thought it would be higher ...

    16 str and 45 dex
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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by LordRevan on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:54 pm

    Fotitudo wrote:
    LordRevan wrote:Ummm Bandits Knife does more than Great Scythe, where are you reading that from?
    maybe just a bit i have my knife at +14 and my scythe at +15, and my scythe does with hornet ring to a kiln black knight riposte exactly 1337 damage. (i know its a sighn! big grin) and my knife does around 1088, i think. I thought it would be higher ...

    16 str and 45 dex

    Oh okay. I was reading from his Chart. Thought you were too, nvm happy


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    Re: Elemental or +15?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:04 pm

    Every weapon works well crystal, the problem is that they're fragile and cannot be repaired.


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