Dark Wood Grain Ring

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    Anonymous Proxy
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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by Anonymous Proxy on Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:34 pm

    I'm sure I posted this in this thread or another of the THOUSAND of these threads about the DWGR.

    Never affected me.

    If I am using the DWGR, I am wearing Gold Hemmed Skirt with Dusk Crown featuring CMW and Uchi+15.

    If I am not using the DWGR, I am wearing Full Havels using 48 Great Combustions.

    So in the end. I win.


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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:39 pm

    spears now deflect of shields as do rapiers and it takes like 40% more stamina to poke from behind a shield, also big (like dga) weapons gain hyper armor


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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:43 pm

    Haven't seen you for a while Rynn! Anyway, I'm really glad I stopped relying on the ring, I basically just weaned myself off of it right before the nerf was announced. All my used builds are fast rolling now, except for cosplays of course.


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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:25 pm

    The ironic thing?

    Using the DWGR will soon be the sign of a cool hipster.

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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by Slarg232 on Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:26 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:The ironic thing?

    Using the DWGR will soon be the sign of a cool hipster.



    I'm actually building one right now that uses it, because I know I will be among the few to do so once the patch hits lol!


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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:02 pm

    People will still be able to fast roll at 76 poise and 300+ defense across the board with 40 end, assuming they have a claymore or lighter. If they use a rapier or gouge a little(5, maybe 10 points), they'll be able to break the 350 defense mark. Thats sound suspiciously like a fastrolling tank to me.


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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by vageta31 on Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:35 pm

    DWGR isn't useless, it's just not a "no brainer" anymore. It doesn't increase your burden anymore, but it still offers a significant advantage to a fast roll. iFrames and recovery. Personally I just use Havel's ring as a permanent equip, then choose my 2nd ring depending on the situation. Wolf for poise, DWGR for better evasion, hornet for taking out tougher enemies, etc..


    For those unaware of the true power of the DWGR, here are some numbers.


    Fast Roll: 0 Encumbrance
    iFrames = 13
    Full animation = 21

    Fast Roll: 25% Encumbrance
    iFrames = 13
    Full animation = 24

    DWGR Flip: 0 Encumbrance
    iFrames = 15
    Full Animation = 19

    DWGR Flip: 25% Encumbrance
    iFrames = 15
    Full Animation = 22


    Since most of us aren't going to be completely weightless, the 25% encumbrance number is more likely. Only 7 of the DWGR animation frames are not invincible, and it instantly recovers allowing you to start it up again. Not to mention it travels much farther which is a huge advantage for dodging attacks with a large hit box.


    It's no longer a crutch to use heavy armor, but it's far from useless. Just wait till you hit the new content and see how many of the boss attacks are either AOE on strike or have abnormally large hit boxes and realize just how important iFrames and roll distance is.


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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by Reaperfan on Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:36 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:People will still be able to fast roll at 76 poise and 300+ defense across the board with 40 end, assuming they have a claymore or lighter. If they use a rapier or gouge a little(5, maybe 10 points), they'll be able to break the 350 defense mark. Thats sound suspiciously like a fastrolling tank to me.

    True, but it will have to be very specific as well as limit your potential weapon choice as opposed to now where it's basically "herp derp pick whatever, wear the ring, now I'm as fast as can be!"


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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:44 pm

    Its still fastrolling at 76 poise. If its ok for everyone I don't have a problem, but when the builds that least need poise and defense because the move so fast can do it, and the builds that need poise and defense the most because they're slow can't, I have a problem.

    Its like the opposite of how it should be. Fast rolling AND poise should't be available to anyone if its not avalable to everyone. Essentially, if the beiber ring is being nerfed, the wolf ring should have been as well, as they allow the same crap, but now only dex builds get to do it because str weapons are heavy.

    It might limit weapon choices, but what it limits them to is most every dex weapon.


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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:49 pm

    It still signals an end to the BKGA/Zaphander BS fishers which is a step in the right direction, in and of itself.

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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:59 pm

    Not really, it just signals an end to them doing it in heavy armor with the hornets ring. A bkga bs is always going to hurt. At 63 end with havels/fap they can fast roll with 56 poise. They can also use power within and heal if they're determined.


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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:04 pm

    vageta31 wrote:DWGR isn't useless, it's just not a "no brainer" anymore. It doesn't increase your burden anymore, but it still offers a significant advantage to a fast roll. iFrames and recovery. Personally I just use Havel's ring as a permanent equip, then choose my 2nd ring depending on the situation. Wolf for poise, DWGR for better evasion, hornet for taking out tougher enemies, etc..


    For those unaware of the true power of the DWGR, here are some numbers.


    Fast Roll: 0 Encumbrance
    iFrames = 13
    Full animation = 21

    Fast Roll: 25% Encumbrance
    iFrames = 13
    Full animation = 24

    DWGR Flip: 0 Encumbrance
    iFrames = 15
    Full Animation = 19

    DWGR Flip: 25% Encumbrance
    iFrames = 15
    Full Animation = 22


    Since most of us aren't going to be completely weightless, the 25% encumbrance number is more likely. Only 7 of the DWGR animation frames are not invincible, and it instantly recovers allowing you to start it up again. Not to mention it travels much farther which is a huge advantage for dodging attacks with a large hit box.


    It's no longer a crutch to use heavy armor, but it's far from useless. Just wait till you hit the new content and see how many of the boss attacks are either AOE on strike or have abnormally large hit boxes and realize just how important iFrames and roll distance is.



    I have been saying the same thing. Cool you did the roll tests, did you make a video? I did not see it if so, i assume you are having fun enjoying the new content though so i don't blame ya. Thanks for posting that +1
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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:05 pm

    It'll be harder to get the same results. Or rather, it will require more stat investment, which I completely agree with. You can make a fastroll tank build, you just have to crank end. That's fine with me bcause it costs you something, in the way of sacrificing points in some other area like hp/damage.


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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:07 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:Its still fastrolling at 76 poise. If its ok for everyone I don't have a problem, but when the builds that least need poise and defense because the move so fast can do it, and the builds that need poise and defense the most because they're slow can't, I have a problem.

    Its like the opposite of how it should be. Fast rolling AND poise should't be available to anyone if its not avalable to everyone. Essentially, if the beiber ring is being nerfed, the wolf ring should have been as well, as they allow the same crap, but now only dex builds get to do it because str weapons are heavy.

    It might limit weapon choices, but what it limits them to is most every dex weapon.



    I agree forum, and i also have a fastrolling 76poise build. You can do it, and have decent choice when it comes to weapons. Only thing is that you are much more limited then before, we arent going to see flipping tanks with DMB and 12 casts of wrath at any reasonable soul level. Thats what makes me the most happy, players are really going to have to actually think and be creative when making builds.
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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:13 pm

    Exactly.


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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:17 pm

    Not really, you're just not a hybrid. At 120 anyways.

    I have no problem with nerfing the beiber ring, I have a problem with NOT nerfing the wolf ring too. As I've already said, I'll shut up if every hit from a ug weapon stuns (not stun locks, just enough to interrupt the current action) because now some claymore user can still poise stab my dgm (I'd have to screw up but still), but they'll stun me if I try that same thing, and they get to move faster.

    Over all the balance will be better, but only for weapons under 8-10 units. Above that, we still can't stun anyone, its more difficult for us to hit, we're easier to punish, our damage is still roughly on par with much lighter weapons r2s (which are still faster than our r1s), and we take reduced movement speed or a serious lack of defense.

    For about 1/3rd more power than a greatsword r1, thats not an even trade.


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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:23 pm

    I am really happy that i randomly decided to give up the dwgr, a lot of us did. We will certainly have an advantage over the players who used a lot of the things that have been nerfed as a crutch.


    I agree forum, heavy weapons did get the shaft. I heard theres improved hyper armor for large weapons though, although some people seem to disagree that this is true.
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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:29 pm

    Hyper armor will help, but I don't think that it will protect from backstabs. That would be..............interesting. Its usefullness would depend on how long hyper armor lasts/when in the swing it starts.


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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by Spurgun on Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:31 pm

    Can you still parry them when they have hyper armor? I know some weapons in demons weren't parry-able.
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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:34 pm

    Even in Dark, you've got moves like the 2-handed strong attack from the Large Club that appears to be un-parryable.

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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:47 pm

    ^ i have never parried that or seen anyone parry it.

    Spoiler:
    I also heard that you cant be backstabbed while gesturing, although you can be attacked normally(unconfirmed)
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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:51 pm

    Don't know spur, in demons you couldn't.

    Dark has some unparriable stuff the large and great club 2h roll r1 is like that, but such things are rare. Unless they're range based, like with spears or the washing poll 2hr2


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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by Dragon Slayer Ornstein on Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:53 pm

    Makes sense to nerf the ring really, it balances things out overall. Still, I think it needs to come to the point where they STOP tweaking things.

    According to a buddy of mine, Elemental weapons and the Family Masks from Pinwheel and Patches are being nerfed as well, can anyone confirm this? personally I think it's a good thing, SO many people used the masks and it just got ridiculous in PvP, no variety.

    Lightning Zwei, Father Mask and Giant's Set! hurrp durrr..

    Granted I'm all for player freedom, we'll have to see how much of a difference these tweaks make.


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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:25 pm

    To me it seems like they were really paying attention to the balancing while porting to the pc. I don't think we will need another patch after this, except to maybe make it so you can't use heal miracle in the arena. Faith builds are going to be OP!
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    Re: Dark Wood Grain Ring

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:55 pm

    People should get healed after every fight - no exceptions.

    Make up some ******** lore excuse and just run with it. Like if you soak in the blessed waters of Oolacile by the arena you heal up or something like that. The way it is, only Faith builds are going to have any shot at going on any long winning streaks.


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