Why backpedalling is a terrible strategy against lagstabs

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    OrnsteinBro
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    Why backpedalling is a terrible strategy against lagstabs

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:39 pm

    I don't know if anyone's commented on this already, but I think I finally understand how it works.

    It's not just that latency causes the guy on the end to be nearer to you than he actually appears (like I've read up about in the past), but more importantly that latency causes your character's position information to be updated at a much slower rate on their screen than yours.

    Example:

    Let x represent the foe, let o represent you on your screen and let q represent your character's lagging model on their screen. Underscores are just for distancing of the respective symbols.


    _q
    x

    _______o


    I noticed this while trying out my halberd in the kiln since I wasn't used to the hit timings on the thing (new weapon lol).

    There was this Russian guy who was constantly running for my back while I backpedalled, and he would always get the lagstab by suddenly breaking off from me and circling an invisible target several steps to my front where I'd been a number of seconds ago- and then he'd land the OHKO backstab (zoomed in lol). For a long time now I'd wondered why people said that backpedaling worked at preventing lagstabbers, and why it never seemed to work for me against lock bs fishers (backpedaling gets me lagstabbed without fail; instead I get rid of lagstabbers by counter-bsing or hitting behind me when I predict a lstab attempt). I finally got around to thinking about it yesterday when I met this guy.

    Basically, when you're backpedaling you move at an extremely slow velocity as compared to your opponent while he's running for your back. At some point the connection will be slow to update your character information, causing you to freeze in place or move more slowly than actual (a.k.a lag spike)- giving him the opportunity to easily circle the image of your character on his screen with his momentum advantage to nab the lagstab.

    So how do you get rid of this, if you want to backpedal? You watch for when they appear to break lock and follow an invisible image of you then you hit them. Backpedaling, on its own, is useless as a safeguard. You have to combine it with other things like counter-bsing and null damage bs for it to work.

    Of course, this takes a lot of precise timing, aiming and watching for their exact movements as they are also lagging on your screen. I've noticed that sometimes they are a spear's length away when they land the lagstab in this way and sometimes they are a falchion's distance away.

    Thoughts? Comments? Improvements? Am I dreadfully wrong? Anything I've missed out?


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    Re: Why backpedalling is a terrible strategy against lagstabs

    Post by 727 on Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:54 pm

    thats an interesting idea. i usually dont backpedal to begin with but then again its been awhile since ive fought lagstabbers. ill definitely keep my eye out for this in pvp orn. thanks for the info!


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    Re: Why backpedalling is a terrible strategy against lagstabs

    Post by Buggy Virus on Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:57 pm

    Back pedaling strafing has never failed to give me a backstab against backstab fishers.


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    Re: Why backpedalling is a terrible strategy against lagstabs

    Post by DarkW17 on Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:59 pm

    Sorry I was busy looking at your avatar...what was the question?

    I wear armor of thorns so if I see them going for a lag stab I just back step not backpedal...then I either cancel the BS with the thorns or get in postion for a counter BS!!

    Sometimes I just take the lag BS...then parry there chain attempt...then pwned them with a wake up BS after the parry/RPSTL silly


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    Re: Why backpedalling is a terrible strategy against lagstabs

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:44 pm

    Thats exceptional lag. Backpeddeling will stop most backstabs, lag or no. its far from useless. if the lag is really that bad theres not much to be done to defend yourself.


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    Re: Why backpedalling is a terrible strategy against lagstabs

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:19 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:Thats exceptional lag. Backpeddeling will stop most backstabs, lag or no. its far from useless. if the lag is really that bad theres not much to be done to defend yourself.

    It happens fairly frequently, it's not exceptional. Every time I invade a German or Italian guy I can be assured that I'll be met by that kind of lag.

    And it's not that hard to deal with, hitting them with a wide arc weapon does the job fine.


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    Re: Why backpedalling is a terrible strategy against lagstabs

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:56 am

    That's a nice trick glatts, I'm planning on trying to work the thorn armor myself so I'm gonna try it out.


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    Re: Why backpedalling is a terrible strategy against lagstabs

    Post by DarkW17 on Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:18 am

    Ya Ghadis I literally cancel over 70 % of BS attempts just by knowing the right time to roll into/backstep into them...atleast 1 piece of kirks should be worn by everyone!!


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    Re: Why backpedalling is a terrible strategy against lagstabs

    Post by X-government-agent on Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:56 am

    I swing my great lord greatsword 2 handed with high stamina and I never get backstabbing for damage, just constant swinging either knocks them off balance or I get bagstabbed while I'm swinging and recieve no damage
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    Re: Why backpedalling is a terrible strategy against lagstabs

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:51 pm

    I've only faced a few players that have backstabed me while backpedaling. Its possible that i'm simply lucky, because my connections not super awesome, but I just don't get backstabbed while I'm backing off to avoid one.

    Wide sweeping weapons are the obvious fix to all backstabbs, but if lag is so bad that they can bs from a spears distance away a sweeping weapon will hardly save me unless I'm very lucky. They're not in range for my swing after all, so it will miss, and I'll get bsd anyways.


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    Re: Why backpedalling is a terrible strategy against lagstabs

    Post by Rin on Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:30 pm

    X-government-agent wrote:I swing my great lord greatsword 2 handed with high stamina and I never get backstabbing for damage, just constant swinging either knocks them off balance or I get bagstabbed while I'm swinging and recieve no damage

    Yeh the greatsword 'stun locks' rather well it with breake the poist of almost every1 with 2 hits thats why it and its kind are seen as cheap weapons... the people that can bs you have enough poist to go through your attack, it fails du to lag...


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    Re: Why backpedalling is a terrible strategy against lagstabs

    Post by bloodpixel on Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:00 am

    Back-pedaling and strafing usually works for me.


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